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this program is brought to you by the

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genesis communications network a world

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leader in talk radio since 1998. visit

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[Music]

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you're in the paracast

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the gold standard of paranormal radio

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and now

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back with gene and chris in the power

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cast and before we

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proceed with our guest nick redfern who

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was already here

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and waiting with baited breath to talk

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to us about women in black and such

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i thought that chris and i would

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recap or expand upon something

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that we mentioned on after the power

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cast and if you're wondering what after

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the power cast is it is our premium show

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that comes as part of the power cast

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plus you get the commercial free version

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of this show you get after the power

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casts and other things so we mentioned

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it briefly there and we talked about a

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gentleman from the uk named isaac coy

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and that's a pseudonym because he works

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as a barrister kind of a lawyer

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in england and doesn't want his

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connection to ufos to be known and we

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understand people have their priorities

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so evidently here this is very very

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complicated but isaac has been

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digitizing older ufo magazines and such

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has been doing it for a while and is

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really doing a lot of work there great

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work

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presenting

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a free digital archive of all these

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great publications from the 50s and 60s

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and 70s you know before we had

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digital stuff doing really good work and

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this is complicated and chris maybe you

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can help me figure this out so we have

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ted rowe

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from narcap who evidently left narcap

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and started his own organization with

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erica luke's do i have it right

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yep so far i'm going to mention it

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because it is an issue here very quickly

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in brief they are accused

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of threatening to out

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isaac coy in other words reveal his real

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identity but to be perfectly fair

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they say they did no such thing

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because he made some comment about their

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organization and they took exception to

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it and

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to retaliate they threaten to

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i don't know somehow they've they've

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gotten a hold of a picture of him at

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some conference and they're going to

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figure out who is you know who he is and

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out him on the internet he claims that

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he's this isakoi claims he's a barrister

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in england and that it would be real

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detrimental to his um you know his job

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and his uh prestige

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if he was tarnished and and slimed

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by an association with the ufo field and

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so that's why he has a pseudonym and

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he's been doing very excellent work for

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many years and has managed to digitize

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quite a number of old publications that

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very few people have access to and put

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them into a place where you can download

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them and have easy access to them

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you know you go ahead gene take it from

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here it's so

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it's

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nick this is what nick and i both would

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agree that this is what we dislike most

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about the field but but continue

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now as i said

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we have that version of the story

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and they deny they ever made any effort

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to disclose his real name just putting

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that in perspective but i'll continue

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with this anyway now i have no idea

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what impact this would have in his

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career but isaac coy did post a letter

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it's on facebook and elsewhere saying

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he's getting out

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that's it you know he can't go on with

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this and whatever it is

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that could happen to him in terms of

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feedback maybe his employer would

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object to his association with ufos we

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have no idea he is entitled to his

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personal life he's entitled to use a

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pseudonym

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actors use sodiums

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authors use pseudonyms he's entitled to

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his privacy

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and

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now evidently he's given it up he's no

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longer going to digitize any of this

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material

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because as i said there's this disputed

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version of whether these two people got

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upset

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i'm sure that most listeners are

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wondering what's this all about anyway

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but this is the crazy

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ufo field sometimes

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silly things happen that make no sense

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i'm not going to even consider why ted

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rowe may not be at narcap anymore

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you know tell people what narcap is okay

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yeah everything here has to be filled in

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with explanations

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and so

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narcap is an organization called

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national aviation reporting center on

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anomalous phenomena in other words they

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call ufos uap just like hillary clinton

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did and

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richard haynes and ted rowe were the

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people behind it and both have been on

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the power cast and we thought they were

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great guests

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very knowledgeable very scientific in

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their approach

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so i guess if i take this correctly

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ted row is not with them anymore and

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started his own organization somehow

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erica luke's who was one of the

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big investigators for mufon was also

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involved

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now

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after that we're really getting in the

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weeds here so i think we're going to

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leave it there

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except to say this is an example of the

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things that upset us the most about

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ufology it's why i i cringe

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whenever somebody refers to me as a

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ufologist i i very quickly

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and politely and and you know kind of lo

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in a low-key way correct them and say

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please don't call me that i don't

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consider myself to be that

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it's like using a four-letter word to

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chris

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it's just in so many of our listeners

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really don't care

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they don't

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have any interest

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in personality conflicts and backbiting

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and

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the

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wranglings and tips that people have

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rose over rowe and

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i think nick would agree that um i i

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mean i know i i would never refer to

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nick as a as a ufologist even though he

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has written many books about the subject

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and has investigated uh quite a number

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of cases on his own and uh with others

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but uh nick do you consider yourself

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well first of all welcome to the show

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and i'm glad i'm here this time i think

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i've missed your last two appearances uh

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for one reason or another welcome back

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but would do you consider yourself a

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ufologist

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no i would consider myself uh someone

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who investigates a lot of mysteries that

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interest me and one of them happens to

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be ufos but cryptology is also a big

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interest of mine

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some aspects of the paranormal

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and so i don't even think i'd have i i

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guess the closest label i would say

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would be like a paranormal researcher

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and because the paranormal you know can

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cover

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pretty much as any aspect of

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unusual phenomena but um i mean to get

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to the you know the thrust of what you

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were talking at the beginning um you

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know a lot of people

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actually kind of find it quite

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surprising when they find out when it

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comes to ufos and paranormal i'm pretty

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much in sort of my own little

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bubble i don't follow the whole

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he said this she said that the gossip

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the scandal who's doing who you know i

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just

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you know because i enjoy having a normal

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life as well i just i just don't care

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about

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all the personality clashes and all that

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kind of stuff

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only from the perspective of

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i guess the one thing that i did enjoy

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in that angle because it was done well

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was jim mosley source of smear you know

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just to but to

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have to listen to

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a bunch of people arguing about well i'm

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going to be the president and i'm gonna

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be the vice president and you can be the

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chairman and we're gonna change the name

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to this or that and we're gonna you know

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i just couldn't care less about it and

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i don't even follow it um you know

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there's not much i can say about the

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story you'd mention because i haven't

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actually

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heard about it until you just briefly

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mentioned it at the start of the show

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you know what i'm going to say this

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quickly and let's close it off let me

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say this quickly and close it up the

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only reason it makes any difference to

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me at all

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is because it impacts somebody who's

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trying to do something good

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and trying to give people

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a repository of really good information

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they can look over

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and i don't think that he's bothered

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anybody and i guess if he said something

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that upset them well

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that's something that could be resolved

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i would have hoped in a way that doesn't

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threaten this person's position and

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force him to give this all up and that's

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what upsets me otherwise i don't care

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about the organizational structure or

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why they did this or why there's narcap

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and why ted rowe is here and erica luks

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is there and why there's mufon i

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couldn't care less when impact someone

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who i regard as just

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an innocent victim here

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that upsets me i think that's the point

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here we'll get away from that totally i

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just wanted to bring you up to date

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we have nick redfern

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we have christopher o'brien the first

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time with nick in a couple of attempts

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with gene steinberg you're in the

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[Music]

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348
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349
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350
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entire month online at powerprepper.com

353
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that's powerprepper.com

354
00:14:16,310 --> 00:14:13,829
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

355
00:14:19,910 --> 00:14:16,320
comment or question about the paracast

356
00:14:23,110 --> 00:14:19,920
send it to news theparacast.com

357
00:14:24,949 --> 00:14:23,120
that's news the paracast.com

358
00:14:27,430 --> 00:14:24,959
and don't forget to visit our famous

359
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paracast community forums at

360
00:14:37,509 --> 00:14:35,030
okay so before we leave the subject of

361
00:14:40,069 --> 00:14:37,519
isaac coy and his

362
00:14:42,069 --> 00:14:40,079
reasons for leaving the field nick you

363
00:14:44,069 --> 00:14:42,079
wanted to say something well yeah one

364
00:14:46,069 --> 00:14:44,079
thing i would say is that you know i

365
00:14:48,790 --> 00:14:46,079
think despite the fact that i don't sort

366
00:14:51,110 --> 00:14:48,800
of follow all the gossip and the scandal

367
00:14:53,030 --> 00:14:51,120
and like i said who's talking to who

368
00:14:55,269 --> 00:14:53,040
isn't talking to anybody else anymore or

369
00:14:58,150 --> 00:14:55,279
whatever this actually isn't anything

370
00:14:59,910 --> 00:14:58,160
sort of unique to ufology this is how

371
00:15:02,550 --> 00:14:59,920
human beings act

372
00:15:05,430 --> 00:15:02,560
and you can find that i'm quite sure

373
00:15:06,949 --> 00:15:05,440
in i don't know the local golf club you

374
00:15:10,150 --> 00:15:06,959
know about who's going to be president

375
00:15:11,430 --> 00:15:10,160
or who's going to do this or you know in

376
00:15:13,189 --> 00:15:11,440
people who

377
00:15:16,150 --> 00:15:13,199
i don't know

378
00:15:18,310 --> 00:15:16,160
collect old movie posters or something

379
00:15:20,230 --> 00:15:18,320
like that and you know they argue about

380
00:15:22,470 --> 00:15:20,240
who's going to sell this at this

381
00:15:25,189 --> 00:15:22,480
convention or whatever all it comes down

382
00:15:27,829 --> 00:15:25,199
to just people ufologists aren't

383
00:15:31,269 --> 00:15:27,839
ufologists ufologists are people and

384
00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:31,279
people sometimes act like asses you know

385
00:15:35,670 --> 00:15:33,680
and so that's why i just don't bother

386
00:15:37,910 --> 00:15:35,680
with it because i just i just literally

387
00:15:40,550 --> 00:15:37,920
cannot be bothered to waste time when i

388
00:15:42,629 --> 00:15:40,560
could be having a good time you know or

389
00:15:46,629 --> 00:15:42,639
be drawn into it like you were with the

390
00:15:48,389 --> 00:15:46,639
uh really tawdry roswell slides episode

391
00:15:50,870 --> 00:15:48,399
oh well that that was a little bit

392
00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:50,880
different because that was based around

393
00:15:56,230 --> 00:15:52,800
you know an investigation

394
00:15:58,710 --> 00:15:56,240
of an aspect of ufology now i'm all up

395
00:16:00,710 --> 00:15:58,720
for like a good solid debate and heated

396
00:16:04,069 --> 00:16:00,720
arguments on the merits or the lack of

397
00:16:06,629 --> 00:16:04,079
merits of a ufo case that's miles apart

398
00:16:09,189 --> 00:16:06,639
from oh have you heard what so-and-so

399
00:16:10,949 --> 00:16:09,199
has done and so-and-so said this

400
00:16:14,230 --> 00:16:10,959
you know and it actually has nothing to

401
00:16:16,870 --> 00:16:14,240
do with the phenomenon or the phenomena

402
00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:16,880
themselves now the slides angle did it

403
00:16:21,670 --> 00:16:19,440
had a bearing on the roswell case until

404
00:16:24,310 --> 00:16:21,680
it all fell apart you know

405
00:16:26,389 --> 00:16:24,320
so in that sense i'm on the ball and

406
00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:26,399
follow those kind of things because it's

407
00:16:30,389 --> 00:16:27,360
part of

408
00:16:32,389 --> 00:16:30,399
ufology as a phenomenon but somebody

409
00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:32,399
said well nick redfern don't wear ties

410
00:16:37,670 --> 00:16:34,560
and shirts and jackets for conferences

411
00:16:39,590 --> 00:16:37,680
i'm like well no and you know i it just

412
00:16:40,629 --> 00:16:39,600
you know it's not important it's like

413
00:16:42,870 --> 00:16:40,639
totally

414
00:16:45,030 --> 00:16:42,880
irrelevant to anything i do and

415
00:16:46,790 --> 00:16:45,040
pondering on why somebody else in

416
00:16:47,670 --> 00:16:46,800
ufology had an argument with somebody

417
00:16:49,670 --> 00:16:47,680
else

418
00:16:51,430 --> 00:16:49,680
i'd rather watch paint dry on the wall

419
00:16:52,949 --> 00:16:51,440
you know what i mean all right i don't

420
00:16:54,550 --> 00:16:52,959
want to do this because you mentioned

421
00:16:58,069 --> 00:16:54,560
roswell's slides

422
00:17:00,629 --> 00:16:58,079
there's an article at curt collins

423
00:17:02,949 --> 00:17:00,639
site blueberry lines where he talks

424
00:17:04,870 --> 00:17:02,959
about this isaac koi thing

425
00:17:07,750 --> 00:17:04,880
and you're ready for this

426
00:17:10,789 --> 00:17:07,760
the attack on isaac coy is erica luke's

427
00:17:13,669 --> 00:17:10,799
revenge enacted by ted rowe

428
00:17:16,150 --> 00:17:13,679
fallout in part from the roswell slides

429
00:17:18,949 --> 00:17:16,160
fiasco

430
00:17:21,029 --> 00:17:18,959
you know what this demonstrates is that

431
00:17:22,309 --> 00:17:21,039
when it comes to things like the roswell

432
00:17:25,669 --> 00:17:22,319
slides

433
00:17:27,669 --> 00:17:25,679
things become personal and inflammatory

434
00:17:30,870 --> 00:17:27,679
if somebody said to me they disagree

435
00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:30,880
with the theory that i had then we can

436
00:17:36,310 --> 00:17:33,520
sort of discuss that and fight it out on

437
00:17:38,549 --> 00:17:36,320
a radio show or whatever if somebody

438
00:17:41,029 --> 00:17:38,559
says i'm full of you no reference full

439
00:17:43,190 --> 00:17:41,039
of you know what then i would attack

440
00:17:45,590 --> 00:17:43,200
that person personally you know what i

441
00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:45,600
mean because that's like

442
00:17:50,789 --> 00:17:47,440
making a personal

443
00:17:53,830 --> 00:17:50,799
attack instead of focusing on the case

444
00:17:55,430 --> 00:17:53,840
and again you know it demonstrates

445
00:17:57,510 --> 00:17:55,440
human nature

446
00:18:00,310 --> 00:17:57,520
not far more than it does anything about

447
00:18:01,990 --> 00:18:00,320
ufology you know it's um it demonstrates

448
00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:02,000
a lack of maturity is what it

449
00:18:04,630 --> 00:18:03,600
demonstrates

450
00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:04,640
god

451
00:18:08,789 --> 00:18:06,400
get a life people

452
00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:08,799
you know i it's just for me

453
00:18:14,310 --> 00:18:11,760
i just don't understand the concept of

454
00:18:16,310 --> 00:18:14,320
wasting time and you know getting on the

455
00:18:17,909 --> 00:18:16,320
phone to your buddies and saying oh have

456
00:18:19,830 --> 00:18:17,919
you heard what's going on

457
00:18:21,830 --> 00:18:19,840
was it something to do with ufos or is

458
00:18:23,669 --> 00:18:21,840
it you know somebody was caught screwing

459
00:18:25,669 --> 00:18:23,679
somebody else's husband or wife or

460
00:18:28,710 --> 00:18:25,679
whatever an event you know what i mean

461
00:18:31,270 --> 00:18:28,720
it's two different things ooh inquiring

462
00:18:33,029 --> 00:18:31,280
minds want to know

463
00:18:34,470 --> 00:18:33,039
but you know i've kind of been a bit

464
00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:34,480
joke here but

465
00:18:36,870 --> 00:18:35,760
my point

466
00:18:39,669 --> 00:18:36,880
is that

467
00:18:40,630 --> 00:18:39,679
if i'm going to talk about ufos for two

468
00:18:43,029 --> 00:18:40,640
hours

469
00:18:46,390 --> 00:18:43,039
i'd rather talk about the phenomenon

470
00:18:48,870 --> 00:18:46,400
than go on about what he said what she

471
00:18:50,870 --> 00:18:48,880
said because what does it achieve at the

472
00:18:53,990 --> 00:18:50,880
end of the day it achieves one thing

473
00:18:55,990 --> 00:18:54,000
that people argue over things that

474
00:18:58,950 --> 00:18:56,000
really get something better to do you

475
00:19:01,029 --> 00:18:58,960
know tempest in a teapot well folks if

476
00:19:03,029 --> 00:19:01,039
you read this stuff online

477
00:19:05,350 --> 00:19:03,039
and there's so much junk out there now

478
00:19:07,990 --> 00:19:05,360
we have the term fake

479
00:19:09,990 --> 00:19:08,000
news and this will join it i just say

480
00:19:11,750 --> 00:19:10,000
get away from it we're trying to provide

481
00:19:13,270 --> 00:19:11,760
a little bit of a reality check here and

482
00:19:15,510 --> 00:19:13,280
let's just get on with our stuff with

483
00:19:17,669 --> 00:19:15,520
nick redfern and nick of course every

484
00:19:19,110 --> 00:19:17,679
time he comes on the power cast he's

485
00:19:21,669 --> 00:19:19,120
written another book

486
00:19:23,909 --> 00:19:21,679
and a recent one we wanted to get into

487
00:19:26,870 --> 00:19:23,919
here just because of the nature of it

488
00:19:29,029 --> 00:19:26,880
which is a book called the women in

489
00:19:31,350 --> 00:19:29,039
black women in black the creepy

490
00:19:34,470 --> 00:19:31,360
companions of the mysterious

491
00:19:36,830 --> 00:19:34,480
mib now to be politically correct nick

492
00:19:39,669 --> 00:19:36,840
can't we have the people in black

493
00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:39,679
or no

494
00:19:43,430 --> 00:19:41,760
well i tried

495
00:19:44,549 --> 00:19:43,440
somebody didn't actually ask me after

496
00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:44,559
having done

497
00:19:48,070 --> 00:19:46,080
three books on the men in black and now

498
00:19:50,549 --> 00:19:48,080
the women in black somebody just did say

499
00:19:52,549 --> 00:19:50,559
to me are you gonna do like brothers and

500
00:19:53,830 --> 00:19:52,559
sisters in black and grandparents in

501
00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:53,840
black

502
00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:55,679
which i thought was kind of funny but no

503
00:19:59,590 --> 00:19:57,840
that's probably not going to happen

504
00:20:01,669 --> 00:19:59,600
to say the least

505
00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:01,679
just imagine how many potential cases

506
00:20:06,710 --> 00:20:04,320
you have in uh fundamentalist uh you

507
00:20:08,470 --> 00:20:06,720
know muslim countries you know get a

508
00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:08,480
mysterious knock at the door and there's

509
00:20:13,430 --> 00:20:11,200
a woman from from top of their head to

510
00:20:14,789 --> 00:20:13,440
her feet covered in black with some

511
00:20:16,470 --> 00:20:14,799
cryptic message

512
00:20:17,830 --> 00:20:16,480
well i guess that technically would be a

513
00:20:21,510 --> 00:20:17,840
woman in black but it wouldn't be

514
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:21,520
necessarily a woman in black you know

515
00:20:26,390 --> 00:20:23,760
just a woman dressed in black

516
00:20:27,510 --> 00:20:26,400
yeah a web

517
00:20:29,510 --> 00:20:27,520
exactly

518
00:20:31,990 --> 00:20:29,520
well this is news to me i i you know i'm

519
00:20:34,230 --> 00:20:32,000
i'm fairly up to speed i think and at

520
00:20:37,510 --> 00:20:34,240
least the mib phenomenon and you know

521
00:20:40,390 --> 00:20:37,520
i'm scratching my head trying to recall

522
00:20:42,310 --> 00:20:40,400
an example of of of women in black being

523
00:20:44,950 --> 00:20:42,320
associated with threatening

524
00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:44,960
visits and uh you know attempts to

525
00:20:48,950 --> 00:20:47,520
silence uh experiences and witnesses and

526
00:20:51,270 --> 00:20:48,960
that sort of thing

527
00:20:53,909 --> 00:20:51,280
what prompted you to to first of all to

528
00:20:56,149 --> 00:20:53,919
even dive into this particular subject

529
00:20:58,310 --> 00:20:56,159
was there a particular case that really

530
00:20:59,510 --> 00:20:58,320
really caught your attention and caused

531
00:21:01,590 --> 00:20:59,520
you to scratch your head and think that

532
00:21:03,510 --> 00:21:01,600
there was maybe something to this well

533
00:21:05,350 --> 00:21:03,520
it was a couple of things really one was

534
00:21:07,750 --> 00:21:05,360
the the angle that there were sort of

535
00:21:09,190 --> 00:21:07,760
pre-existing stories like for example

536
00:21:11,909 --> 00:21:09,200
john kale

537
00:21:14,070 --> 00:21:11,919
in the mothman prophecies talks about

538
00:21:16,870 --> 00:21:14,080
mysterious women turning up on people's

539
00:21:18,789 --> 00:21:16,880
doorsteps after ufo encounters and they

540
00:21:22,710 --> 00:21:18,799
very often be dressed in black and they

541
00:21:24,149 --> 00:21:22,720
would pose as gypsies or a census takers

542
00:21:25,909 --> 00:21:24,159
and you know they would try and find

543
00:21:27,110 --> 00:21:25,919
ways into the home and

544
00:21:28,230 --> 00:21:27,120
then they would start with kind of

545
00:21:30,070 --> 00:21:28,240
questions

546
00:21:31,909 --> 00:21:30,080
there was also the story quite a

547
00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:31,919
well-known story about

548
00:21:36,390 --> 00:21:34,080
john kale's secretary this mysterious

549
00:21:38,310 --> 00:21:36,400
woman going around point pleasant kind

550
00:21:40,230 --> 00:21:38,320
of overstepping the mark when trying to

551
00:21:42,230 --> 00:21:40,240
get information out of

552
00:21:44,230 --> 00:21:42,240
mothman and ufo witnesses in point

553
00:21:45,990 --> 00:21:44,240
pleasant and then of course kale had to

554
00:21:47,990 --> 00:21:46,000
tell everybody well i don't have a

555
00:21:49,430 --> 00:21:48,000
secretary so the

556
00:21:51,750 --> 00:21:49,440
stories like that

557
00:21:53,430 --> 00:21:51,760
but as i mentioned sort of just a few

558
00:21:55,590 --> 00:21:53,440
minutes ago having written

559
00:21:59,110 --> 00:21:55,600
three books on the men in black you know

560
00:22:00,789 --> 00:21:59,120
i get a lot of feedback from people who

561
00:22:02,870 --> 00:22:00,799
read the books or hear me on shows in

562
00:22:04,549 --> 00:22:02,880
the same way then i'm sure people like

563
00:22:06,390 --> 00:22:04,559
kevin randle who've written you know

564
00:22:08,870 --> 00:22:06,400
quite a few roswell books he gets a lot

565
00:22:10,390 --> 00:22:08,880
of feedback on roswell somebody writes

566
00:22:12,789 --> 00:22:10,400
about haunted houses gets a lot of

567
00:22:15,190 --> 00:22:12,799
feedback on haunted house stories

568
00:22:17,029 --> 00:22:15,200
with the men in black book books that

569
00:22:19,029 --> 00:22:17,039
i've written over the years you know you

570
00:22:22,870 --> 00:22:19,039
get a lot of feedback and i would

571
00:22:25,029 --> 00:22:22,880
probably say out of every 15 or 20 cases

572
00:22:26,950 --> 00:22:25,039
i would get one or two where the witness

573
00:22:28,549 --> 00:22:26,960
would say you know read your book or

574
00:22:30,390 --> 00:22:28,559
heard you on the show

575
00:22:32,149 --> 00:22:30,400
but i wanted to tell you about my story

576
00:22:33,669 --> 00:22:32,159
but it was a little bit different you

577
00:22:36,390 --> 00:22:33,679
know there was a threat i'd seen

578
00:22:38,149 --> 00:22:36,400
something there was a threat etc etc but

579
00:22:40,710 --> 00:22:38,159
it was from a woman in black rather than

580
00:22:43,669 --> 00:22:40,720
a man in black we have nick redfearn

581
00:22:51,670 --> 00:22:43,679
talking about the women in black with

582
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:59,590
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686
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this is jacques valley you're listening

687
00:27:35,110 --> 00:27:21,279
to the paracast

688
00:27:40,070 --> 00:27:37,830
so we have chris o'brien trying to

689
00:27:41,750 --> 00:27:40,080
do the voice of a woman in black

690
00:27:44,149 --> 00:27:41,760
with nick redfearn

691
00:27:46,149 --> 00:27:44,159
we're talking about nick's book

692
00:27:48,950 --> 00:27:46,159
women in black

693
00:27:50,870 --> 00:27:48,960
go on please well yeah just before the

694
00:27:52,630 --> 00:27:50,880
break you know i was saying how

695
00:27:54,789 --> 00:27:52,640
for every couple you know every sort of

696
00:27:56,710 --> 00:27:54,799
15 20 reports i get a couple of cases

697
00:27:58,950 --> 00:27:56,720
where the witnesses said i had an

698
00:28:00,789 --> 00:27:58,960
experience very similar to that which

699
00:28:03,110 --> 00:28:00,799
you described in the book or on the

700
00:28:05,110 --> 00:28:03,120
radio show except the person who

701
00:28:06,870 --> 00:28:05,120
threatened me was a woman in black

702
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:06,880
rather than a man in black

703
00:28:13,029 --> 00:28:09,760
and i first got one of these cases

704
00:28:14,870 --> 00:28:13,039
personally probably around about 2007

705
00:28:16,389 --> 00:28:14,880
which was not long after my

706
00:28:18,389 --> 00:28:16,399
first book on the subject on the trail

707
00:28:21,110 --> 00:28:18,399
of the source of spice collected these

708
00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:21,120
reports together and to the point where

709
00:28:26,310 --> 00:28:23,520
the earlier this year was when finally i

710
00:28:28,470 --> 00:28:26,320
got enough material to justify

711
00:28:30,389 --> 00:28:28,480
writing a book on the subject but as i

712
00:28:32,470 --> 00:28:30,399
said i couldn't have done it had it not

713
00:28:34,630 --> 00:28:32,480
been for the fact you know that so much

714
00:28:36,149 --> 00:28:34,640
feedback came in and then you know i

715
00:28:37,750 --> 00:28:36,159
asked the people can i

716
00:28:39,510 --> 00:28:37,760
speak to you at length can we do an

717
00:28:40,710 --> 00:28:39,520
interview would you be okay about using

718
00:28:44,149 --> 00:28:40,720
the story

719
00:28:46,389 --> 00:28:44,159
etc etc so he was very much a case of

720
00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:46,399
looking at the smaller number of

721
00:28:51,350 --> 00:28:49,440
pre-existing reports combined with the

722
00:28:53,269 --> 00:28:51,360
new ones or in some cases old reports

723
00:28:54,149 --> 00:28:53,279
but which were newly reported so to

724
00:28:56,789 --> 00:28:54,159
speak

725
00:28:59,110 --> 00:28:56,799
um that allowed me to do it really

726
00:29:01,669 --> 00:28:59,120
now looking at the descriptions of women

727
00:29:03,269 --> 00:29:01,679
in black do they look like men in black

728
00:29:05,990 --> 00:29:03,279
yeah they are actually very similar

729
00:29:08,549 --> 00:29:06,000
where they wear like a black outfit but

730
00:29:11,669 --> 00:29:08,559
they they kind of look weird and kind of

731
00:29:13,669 --> 00:29:11,679
a little bit strange a very pale skin

732
00:29:16,470 --> 00:29:13,679
they often are seen wearing these long

733
00:29:18,630 --> 00:29:16,480
black wigs which are very often in like

734
00:29:21,110 --> 00:29:18,640
bangs you know so the hair comes right

735
00:29:23,029 --> 00:29:21,120
down to the eyebrows and sort of folds

736
00:29:24,549 --> 00:29:23,039
in around the face you know

737
00:29:26,070 --> 00:29:24,559
they wear these large wrap around

738
00:29:28,789 --> 00:29:26,080
sunglasses

739
00:29:30,549 --> 00:29:28,799
and they look strange and they they act

740
00:29:32,230 --> 00:29:30,559
strange and

741
00:29:35,029 --> 00:29:32,240
like the men in black they sort of turn

742
00:29:37,430 --> 00:29:35,039
up at people's doors late at night

743
00:29:38,630 --> 00:29:37,440
you know wait to be invited in

744
00:29:45,909 --> 00:29:38,640
and

745
00:29:47,110 --> 00:29:45,919
creepy vibe from them even if as in some

746
00:29:49,669 --> 00:29:47,120
cases you know they're really good

747
00:29:51,909 --> 00:29:49,679
looking but people just get this

748
00:29:53,510 --> 00:29:51,919
unsettling vibe that you know they just

749
00:29:54,470 --> 00:29:53,520
want to get as far away from him as

750
00:29:55,990 --> 00:29:54,480
possible

751
00:29:57,909 --> 00:29:56,000
now i want to just bring that back

752
00:30:00,389 --> 00:29:57,919
because we hear that so much in the

753
00:30:01,350 --> 00:30:00,399
so-called vampire lore

754
00:30:03,510 --> 00:30:01,360
so

755
00:30:06,070 --> 00:30:03,520
when a man in black or a woman in black

756
00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:06,080
comes to your home

757
00:30:10,870 --> 00:30:08,399
is the key to invite them in they can't

758
00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:10,880
come in unless you invite them in

759
00:30:14,310 --> 00:30:12,480
well certainly that doesn't occur in

760
00:30:15,269 --> 00:30:14,320
every case but there are a lot of cases

761
00:30:17,510 --> 00:30:15,279
where they

762
00:30:20,310 --> 00:30:17,520
sort of almost patiently stand on the

763
00:30:22,230 --> 00:30:20,320
doorstep and that also goes for the the

764
00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:22,240
stories of the so-called black eyed

765
00:30:26,630 --> 00:30:24,880
children as well you know they all kind

766
00:30:28,149 --> 00:30:26,640
of seem somehow

767
00:30:30,389 --> 00:30:28,159
interconnected you know you've got the

768
00:30:31,909 --> 00:30:30,399
you got the black clothing with the men

769
00:30:34,310 --> 00:30:31,919
in black you know they've got the black

770
00:30:36,389 --> 00:30:34,320
fedoras black-eyed children we've got

771
00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:36,399
the black hoodies the women in black

772
00:30:40,630 --> 00:30:38,080
we've got the black wigs you know

773
00:30:43,430 --> 00:30:40,640
there's all these similar similarities

774
00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:43,440
and when you kind of put it all together

775
00:30:48,310 --> 00:30:46,240
you do have this pattern where these

776
00:30:51,110 --> 00:30:48,320
things you know that none of them

777
00:30:52,789 --> 00:30:51,120
clearly are from like the fbi or the nsa

778
00:30:55,990 --> 00:30:52,799
you know that's that's more to do with

779
00:30:58,230 --> 00:30:56,000
the the movie incarnations and certainly

780
00:30:59,990 --> 00:30:58,240
if you go back to the early 50s the men

781
00:31:02,149 --> 00:31:00,000
in black you know they were described as

782
00:31:04,389 --> 00:31:02,159
extremely creepy and straight through

783
00:31:06,230 --> 00:31:04,399
you know with john kale i mean if you

784
00:31:08,149 --> 00:31:06,240
read my fan prophecies or any of his

785
00:31:09,909 --> 00:31:08,159
other books the men in black

786
00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:09,919
don't sound anything like from the

787
00:31:13,590 --> 00:31:11,840
government and that's the same with the

788
00:31:15,110 --> 00:31:13,600
women in black that

789
00:31:17,590 --> 00:31:15,120
whatever they are you know they're not

790
00:31:19,269 --> 00:31:17,600
from the pentagon or all the

791
00:31:21,350 --> 00:31:19,279
you know the british ministry of defense

792
00:31:23,830 --> 00:31:21,360
or anything like that whatsoever

793
00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:23,840
um there are a lot of weird paranormal

794
00:31:27,510 --> 00:31:25,440
overtones with the women in black

795
00:31:28,710 --> 00:31:27,520
stories as well in the same way that

796
00:31:30,630 --> 00:31:28,720
there are

797
00:31:32,950 --> 00:31:30,640
you know with the man in black cases so

798
00:31:35,029 --> 00:31:32,960
it's it's you know it kind of gets back

799
00:31:36,549 --> 00:31:35,039
to what chris said that um you know do i

800
00:31:39,750 --> 00:31:36,559
consider myself

801
00:31:42,070 --> 00:31:39,760
a ufologist now i would say no and

802
00:31:43,430 --> 00:31:42,080
although the vast majority of the cases

803
00:31:46,389 --> 00:31:43,440
in the book

804
00:31:47,750 --> 00:31:46,399
are focused around ufos i wouldn't

805
00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:47,760
actually say

806
00:31:51,990 --> 00:31:50,080
it's a ufo nuts and bolts book because

807
00:31:53,909 --> 00:31:52,000
it isn't because it you know it sort of

808
00:31:56,710 --> 00:31:53,919
goes into a lot of other

809
00:31:59,190 --> 00:31:56,720
areas of the occult and the paranormal

810
00:32:01,269 --> 00:31:59,200
which cross over into the women in black

811
00:32:02,870 --> 00:32:01,279
mystery in the same way that they do you

812
00:32:05,990 --> 00:32:02,880
know with the man in black

813
00:32:08,149 --> 00:32:06,000
do they drive uh brand new looking um

814
00:32:09,430 --> 00:32:08,159
cadillac's from the 50s or

815
00:32:11,269 --> 00:32:09,440
well you know that's an interesting

816
00:32:14,149 --> 00:32:11,279
thing because i actually don't have many

817
00:32:16,310 --> 00:32:14,159
cases like that where they do turn up in

818
00:32:18,630 --> 00:32:16,320
the cars um you know the men in black

819
00:32:20,789 --> 00:32:18,640
particularly the 50s and 60s you know

820
00:32:22,549 --> 00:32:20,799
that's all they did that's all they

821
00:32:24,389 --> 00:32:22,559
drove um

822
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:24,399
the women in black like a lot of the

823
00:32:28,630 --> 00:32:26,640
many black stories it's almost like

824
00:32:31,110 --> 00:32:28,640
they materialize at the front door and

825
00:32:33,029 --> 00:32:31,120
then when you know the threats over and

826
00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:33,039
they leave the front door it's like

827
00:32:38,870 --> 00:32:36,480
they've just blinked out of existence um

828
00:32:40,789 --> 00:32:38,880
you know so it's a very it's very odd

829
00:32:43,990 --> 00:32:40,799
phenomenon in that sense as well you

830
00:32:46,389 --> 00:32:44,000
know um when we look at who or what

831
00:32:49,669 --> 00:32:46,399
these things are

832
00:32:51,990 --> 00:32:49,679
do we get a sense of of

833
00:32:54,230 --> 00:32:52,000
possibly what sort of agenda they might

834
00:32:55,669 --> 00:32:54,240
have other than silencing witnesses is

835
00:32:58,470 --> 00:32:55,679
is there any

836
00:32:59,509 --> 00:32:58,480
any sort of um significant

837
00:33:01,590 --> 00:32:59,519
uh

838
00:33:03,669 --> 00:33:01,600
you know patterns through the um through

839
00:33:05,110 --> 00:33:03,679
the accounts that uh might tie them

840
00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:05,120
together

841
00:33:09,350 --> 00:33:06,720
well yeah there are actually a few

842
00:33:11,669 --> 00:33:09,360
really weird cases where

843
00:33:13,509 --> 00:33:11,679
the witnesses to the women in black have

844
00:33:14,870 --> 00:33:13,519
said that when you know it and it's

845
00:33:16,310 --> 00:33:14,880
usually just one woman you know if you

846
00:33:19,190 --> 00:33:16,320
look back at a lot of the old stories it

847
00:33:20,389 --> 00:33:19,200
was usually three men or you know very

848
00:33:22,389 --> 00:33:20,399
often two

849
00:33:24,870 --> 00:33:22,399
very rarely in the early years at least

850
00:33:27,350 --> 00:33:24,880
was it just one but the women in black

851
00:33:29,029 --> 00:33:27,360
do tend to turn up mainly

852
00:33:29,830 --> 00:33:29,039
you know just on their own just one of

853
00:33:32,230 --> 00:33:29,840
them

854
00:33:34,470 --> 00:33:32,240
but there are a lot of weird cases

855
00:33:35,990 --> 00:33:34,480
where the witnesses have said that when

856
00:33:38,389 --> 00:33:36,000
the women in black were in their

857
00:33:40,870 --> 00:33:38,399
presence they kind of started to feel

858
00:33:42,870 --> 00:33:40,880
like sick and weak

859
00:33:45,029 --> 00:33:42,880
and lightheaded as if they were losing

860
00:33:46,470 --> 00:33:45,039
all their energy and more than a few

861
00:33:48,389 --> 00:33:46,480
people have said you know i'm

862
00:33:51,190 --> 00:33:48,399
paraphrasing now they didn't obviously

863
00:33:53,110 --> 00:33:51,200
use the same words but basically felt

864
00:33:54,789 --> 00:33:53,120
they were sort of

865
00:33:56,710 --> 00:33:54,799
these things were almost like energy

866
00:33:59,029 --> 00:33:56,720
eaters you know they were like a

867
00:34:01,110 --> 00:33:59,039
parasite they were sort of um

868
00:34:03,350 --> 00:34:01,120
you know living on i don't know like a

869
00:34:04,630 --> 00:34:03,360
human energy or a life force and they

870
00:34:06,789 --> 00:34:04,640
were literally

871
00:34:08,470 --> 00:34:06,799
draining them kind of like like you

872
00:34:11,030 --> 00:34:08,480
mentioned a lot of classic old-time

873
00:34:12,790 --> 00:34:11,040
vampires but not draining them of blood

874
00:34:14,950 --> 00:34:12,800
but almost of like a

875
00:34:15,669 --> 00:34:14,960
you know a psychic life force kind of

876
00:34:17,030 --> 00:34:15,679
thing

877
00:34:19,270 --> 00:34:17,040
the threat

878
00:34:22,710 --> 00:34:19,280
and you know the intimidation is is kind

879
00:34:24,869 --> 00:34:22,720
of a ruse to elevate the person's fear

880
00:34:25,909 --> 00:34:24,879
levels or stress levels

881
00:34:27,510 --> 00:34:25,919
and

882
00:34:29,190 --> 00:34:27,520
that's what they feed upon that's what a

883
00:34:31,430 --> 00:34:29,200
number of the witnesses think they felt

884
00:34:32,869 --> 00:34:31,440
that they were plunged into this

885
00:34:34,550 --> 00:34:32,879
state of fear

886
00:34:36,069 --> 00:34:34,560
not because the woman in black actually

887
00:34:37,990 --> 00:34:36,079
wanted to

888
00:34:40,470 --> 00:34:38,000
frighten them away from the subject it

889
00:34:43,750 --> 00:34:40,480
was just to frighten them and then

890
00:34:45,909 --> 00:34:43,760
feed upon that terror so to speak

891
00:34:48,790 --> 00:34:45,919
so if someone is terrified they can kind

892
00:34:51,990 --> 00:34:48,800
of become like a parasite and grab your

893
00:34:57,430 --> 00:34:55,589
yeah it's kind of um

894
00:34:59,829 --> 00:34:57,440
i guess again i guess the best way to do

895
00:35:02,550 --> 00:34:59,839
it describing it is like um you know

896
00:35:03,829 --> 00:35:02,560
like a parasite that kind of thing

897
00:35:05,030 --> 00:35:03,839
now that's of course you know the

898
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:05,040
witnesses

899
00:35:07,990 --> 00:35:06,240
um

900
00:35:09,270 --> 00:35:08,000
interpretations of it now there are

901
00:35:11,589 --> 00:35:09,280
other cases

902
00:35:13,430 --> 00:35:11,599
where for example um

903
00:35:15,829 --> 00:35:13,440
you know the women in black have been

904
00:35:18,230 --> 00:35:15,839
described as sort of alien human hybrids

905
00:35:20,230 --> 00:35:18,240
a number of uh witnesses

906
00:35:22,230 --> 00:35:20,240
came to that conclusion the idea that

907
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:22,240
what they were seeing was something

908
00:35:27,109 --> 00:35:25,200
that kind of eerily resembled a cross

909
00:35:29,750 --> 00:35:27,119
between a human

910
00:35:31,270 --> 00:35:29,760
a human woman and you know the sort of

911
00:35:33,030 --> 00:35:31,280
classic

912
00:35:35,109 --> 00:35:33,040
alien on the front of whitley street was

913
00:35:37,910 --> 00:35:35,119
communion you know you imagine something

914
00:35:40,630 --> 00:35:37,920
like that as weird as it sounds with a

915
00:35:42,310 --> 00:35:40,640
long black wig on and black sunglasses

916
00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:42,320
and sort of stand in the shadows and

917
00:35:45,670 --> 00:35:44,880
only coming out at night you might kind

918
00:35:47,670 --> 00:35:45,680
of

919
00:35:49,750 --> 00:35:47,680
she might just pass and not be noticed

920
00:35:51,829 --> 00:35:49,760
too much you know what i mean

921
00:35:54,310 --> 00:35:51,839
when you talk about a black wig in other

922
00:35:57,430 --> 00:35:54,320
words the wig is so obvious it can't

923
00:35:59,030 --> 00:35:57,440
just be somebody's hair

924
00:36:01,109 --> 00:35:59,040
now well that's the weird thing is that

925
00:36:03,670 --> 00:36:01,119
the wing the wigs according to most

926
00:36:05,349 --> 00:36:03,680
people really stand out as wigs you know

927
00:36:07,589 --> 00:36:05,359
the kind of thing you would see like a

928
00:36:09,750 --> 00:36:07,599
mannequin in a shop window you know

929
00:36:10,829 --> 00:36:09,760
we're not talking about something you

930
00:36:13,030 --> 00:36:10,839
know really

931
00:36:14,950 --> 00:36:13,040
sophisticated um

932
00:36:18,230 --> 00:36:14,960
but i mean one of the weird things is

933
00:36:21,510 --> 00:36:18,240
that um in 1970

934
00:36:22,710 --> 00:36:21,520
um a woman named shirley cromity had an

935
00:36:25,109 --> 00:36:22,720
experience

936
00:36:27,510 --> 00:36:25,119
with one of the wig wearing women in

937
00:36:29,990 --> 00:36:27,520
black and um

938
00:36:32,870 --> 00:36:30,000
she actually worked in the president

939
00:36:36,230 --> 00:36:32,880
nixon administration she worked at um

940
00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:36,240
nixon's um getaway home in florida well

941
00:36:40,150 --> 00:36:38,240
i'll tell you what i'd be seeing strange

942
00:36:42,310 --> 00:36:40,160
things in black after working with a guy

943
00:36:43,670 --> 00:36:42,320
like nixon i'll tell you let's get into

944
00:36:45,910 --> 00:36:43,680
more of this in the next segment

945
00:36:48,230 --> 00:36:45,920
seriously enough continue that story

946
00:36:59,480 --> 00:36:48,240
with gene steinberg chris o'brien and of

947
00:37:04,069 --> 00:37:00,550
[Applause]

948
00:37:05,390 --> 00:37:04,079
thank you for listening to gcn

949
00:37:08,150 --> 00:37:05,400
be sure to visit

950
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gcnlive.com today

951
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1020
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1021
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1025
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1026
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1027
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1028
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1029
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1030
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1031
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1032
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1033
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1034
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1035
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arteries it can also work on balancing

1036
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the circulation for diabetics so the

1037
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1038
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1039
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1040
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1041
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1042
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1043
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1044
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1045
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mandate imagine having access to quality

1046
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affordable healthcare that allows you

1047
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the freedom to choose your doctor and

1048
00:40:56,630 --> 00:40:54,880
hospital members can share up to one

1049
00:40:58,710 --> 00:40:56,640
hundred percent of necessary medical

1050
00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:58,720
expenses including some alternative

1051
00:41:02,470 --> 00:41:00,480
treatments find out how you and your

1052
00:41:04,710 --> 00:41:02,480
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1053
00:41:06,710 --> 00:41:04,720
without giving up your freedom go to

1054
00:41:14,950 --> 00:41:06,720
liberty libertyoncall.org that's

1055
00:41:20,790 --> 00:41:17,589
hey this is marie d jones the author of

1056
00:41:23,430 --> 00:41:20,800
this book is from the future and you are

1057
00:41:28,700 --> 00:41:23,440
listening to the paracast the gold

1058
00:41:28,710 --> 00:41:33,349
[Music]

1059
00:41:36,950 --> 00:41:35,829
before we get on further with nick

1060
00:41:39,349 --> 00:41:36,960
redfearn

1061
00:41:41,670 --> 00:41:39,359
and the women in black and this person

1062
00:41:43,190 --> 00:41:41,680
who worked for richard nixon how about

1063
00:41:45,109 --> 00:41:43,200
that i want to tell you about something

1064
00:41:46,790 --> 00:41:45,119
else it's called after the power cast

1065
00:41:48,790 --> 00:41:46,800
it's a second radio show that chris and

1066
00:41:51,510 --> 00:41:48,800
i do and quite often we have other

1067
00:41:54,790 --> 00:41:51,520
guests there we just can talk about

1068
00:41:57,030 --> 00:41:54,800
anything at all or talk about a show or

1069
00:41:59,430 --> 00:41:57,040
go into totally different subjects you

1070
00:42:01,270 --> 00:41:59,440
never know with after the power cast and

1071
00:42:04,069 --> 00:42:01,280
the only way to hear that show

1072
00:42:07,910 --> 00:42:04,079
is to become a member of the powercast

1073
00:42:10,950 --> 00:42:07,920
plus plus plus dot the powercast.com

1074
00:42:12,309 --> 00:42:10,960
that's plus.thepowercast.com

1075
00:42:14,150 --> 00:42:12,319
you get a commercial free version of

1076
00:42:15,589 --> 00:42:14,160
this show you know we nuke all the

1077
00:42:17,750 --> 00:42:15,599
network ads

1078
00:42:20,550 --> 00:42:17,760
and you get after the power cast we've

1079
00:42:24,069 --> 00:42:20,560
got videos coming up now and other shows

1080
00:42:26,069 --> 00:42:24,079
even paul kimball's other side of truth

1081
00:42:28,390 --> 00:42:26,079
featuring vintage interviews with a lot

1082
00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:28,400
of people including nick we got a video

1083
00:42:33,270 --> 00:42:30,640
of you from paul and we've got a couple

1084
00:42:35,270 --> 00:42:33,280
of audio files of you from paul so

1085
00:42:37,030 --> 00:42:35,280
that's what we have it

1086
00:42:40,309 --> 00:42:37,040
yeah at the powercastplus at

1087
00:42:43,270 --> 00:42:41,990
well that must have been years ago when

1088
00:42:44,550 --> 00:42:43,280
paul interviewed me i don't know when

1089
00:42:46,710 --> 00:42:44,560
that would have been it would have been

1090
00:42:49,589 --> 00:42:46,720
the early 2000s i think yeah i was going

1091
00:42:51,589 --> 00:42:49,599
to say probably 13 14 years ago right

1092
00:42:53,109 --> 00:42:51,599
and hasn't been available for a while

1093
00:42:54,630 --> 00:42:53,119
and also he started to do some new

1094
00:42:56,230 --> 00:42:54,640
interviews he did a new one with greg

1095
00:42:58,390 --> 00:42:56,240
bishop just a couple of weeks ago that's

1096
00:43:00,150 --> 00:42:58,400
up now so he's starting to

1097
00:43:01,750 --> 00:43:00,160
get so interested in doing it again

1098
00:43:03,109 --> 00:43:01,760
although also he's trying to be a

1099
00:43:04,309 --> 00:43:03,119
politician

1100
00:43:06,710 --> 00:43:04,319
that he's

1101
00:43:09,190 --> 00:43:06,720
decided to re-edit some of his old stuff

1102
00:43:09,990 --> 00:43:09,200
or present new interviews let's move on

1103
00:43:12,790 --> 00:43:10,000
with

1104
00:43:15,109 --> 00:43:12,800
this person this woman who worked for

1105
00:43:16,309 --> 00:43:15,119
richard nixon therefore she has my

1106
00:43:18,069 --> 00:43:16,319
sympathies

1107
00:43:20,069 --> 00:43:18,079
if she's still among us

1108
00:43:22,710 --> 00:43:20,079
and she encountered a woman in black

1109
00:43:25,109 --> 00:43:22,720
tell us more well yeah i said 1970s

1110
00:43:26,710 --> 00:43:25,119
actually 71 i made a mistake on that but

1111
00:43:30,069 --> 00:43:26,720
shirley cromity

1112
00:43:31,109 --> 00:43:30,079
she was a housekeeper at nixon's florida

1113
00:43:33,589 --> 00:43:31,119
retreat

1114
00:43:36,710 --> 00:43:33,599
and she was actually out shopping one

1115
00:43:39,270 --> 00:43:36,720
day and this really weird pale

1116
00:43:41,670 --> 00:43:39,280
sunglasses wearing strange looking woman

1117
00:43:43,589 --> 00:43:41,680
with this black wig came up to her

1118
00:43:45,990 --> 00:43:43,599
and essentially

1119
00:43:48,309 --> 00:43:46,000
i basically came up with a sort of a

1120
00:43:50,790 --> 00:43:48,319
rose asking what the time was

1121
00:43:55,030 --> 00:43:50,800
the woman suddenly released this sort of

1122
00:43:56,390 --> 00:43:55,040
jasmine-like scent from her hand and

1123
00:43:58,390 --> 00:43:56,400
shirley cromity said when she was

1124
00:44:00,470 --> 00:43:58,400
actually taken to court

1125
00:44:02,870 --> 00:44:00,480
and i explained why

1126
00:44:05,190 --> 00:44:02,880
she said that she lost her self-will and

1127
00:44:08,230 --> 00:44:05,200
this woman rather bizarrely took her

1128
00:44:10,069 --> 00:44:08,240
into a store and forced

1129
00:44:12,069 --> 00:44:10,079
or against a will but a will was taken

1130
00:44:14,150 --> 00:44:12,079
from her to steal a number of items of

1131
00:44:16,790 --> 00:44:14,160
clothing and the case was actually

1132
00:44:19,430 --> 00:44:16,800
thrown out of court because

1133
00:44:21,589 --> 00:44:19,440
both sides really believed her story

1134
00:44:24,230 --> 00:44:21,599
that you know she'd somehow been

1135
00:44:25,990 --> 00:44:24,240
drugged in some fashion the story was i

1136
00:44:28,630 --> 00:44:26,000
said it was this sort of jasmine-like

1137
00:44:30,150 --> 00:44:28,640
sense her mind was sort of

1138
00:44:31,270 --> 00:44:30,160
rendered under this woman in black's

1139
00:44:33,670 --> 00:44:31,280
control

1140
00:44:34,790 --> 00:44:33,680
now john kale actually picked up on this

1141
00:44:38,390 --> 00:44:34,800
story

1142
00:44:41,030 --> 00:44:38,400
and he felt that it was actually done

1143
00:44:43,190 --> 00:44:41,040
for nixon's benefit it was a case of

1144
00:44:45,910 --> 00:44:43,200
sort of these women in black pointing

1145
00:44:48,630 --> 00:44:45,920
out how close they could actually get to

1146
00:44:50,950 --> 00:44:48,640
the presidency if they wanted to you

1147
00:44:53,510 --> 00:44:50,960
know so it's sort of a very very um

1148
00:44:56,230 --> 00:44:53,520
strange situation now

1149
00:44:58,390 --> 00:44:56,240
this possible jasmine-like sense could

1150
00:45:01,109 --> 00:44:58,400
have been what's known as um

1151
00:45:02,950 --> 00:45:01,119
scopolamine and it's known better as the

1152
00:45:03,670 --> 00:45:02,960
devil's breath it's actually something

1153
00:45:06,230 --> 00:45:03,680
that's

1154
00:45:08,710 --> 00:45:06,240
uh synthesized from what's called the uh

1155
00:45:09,910 --> 00:45:08,720
barack arrow tree which grows in

1156
00:45:12,950 --> 00:45:09,920
colombia

1157
00:45:15,270 --> 00:45:12,960
and it actually um creates this sort of

1158
00:45:16,790 --> 00:45:15,280
powerful drug which can take people's

1159
00:45:18,710 --> 00:45:16,800
free will away

1160
00:45:21,990 --> 00:45:18,720
now you know somebody might say well it

1161
00:45:23,430 --> 00:45:22,000
was just somebody you know um

1162
00:45:26,150 --> 00:45:23,440
looking to steal somebody's money or

1163
00:45:29,589 --> 00:45:26,160
whatever etc etc but if you read the

1164
00:45:31,829 --> 00:45:29,599
story she actually sounds um you know

1165
00:45:34,550 --> 00:45:31,839
just like a classic woman in black and

1166
00:45:35,910 --> 00:45:34,560
even this issue of asking people what

1167
00:45:38,630 --> 00:45:35,920
the time is

1168
00:45:40,230 --> 00:45:38,640
that's one of the ways that in so many

1169
00:45:43,510 --> 00:45:40,240
cases the women in black start a

1170
00:45:45,910 --> 00:45:43,520
conversation with ufo witnesses so you

1171
00:45:47,670 --> 00:45:45,920
know it is a really strange story sort

1172
00:45:49,990 --> 00:45:47,680
of one of the lesser known

1173
00:45:51,670 --> 00:45:50,000
ones involving the women in black that

1174
00:45:55,829 --> 00:45:51,680
in a very strange way you know the

1175
00:45:58,870 --> 00:45:57,349
okay so we're talking here about an

1176
00:46:01,589 --> 00:45:58,880
event that occurred

1177
00:46:03,589 --> 00:46:01,599
back in 1971.

1178
00:46:05,829 --> 00:46:03,599
and i guess we think about men and black

1179
00:46:08,069 --> 00:46:05,839
and women in black and we think about

1180
00:46:10,950 --> 00:46:08,079
the 50s 60s 70s

1181
00:46:12,790 --> 00:46:10,960
what about now any recent cases of women

1182
00:46:14,710 --> 00:46:12,800
in black or men in black that are worth

1183
00:46:17,030 --> 00:46:14,720
of note

1184
00:46:20,150 --> 00:46:17,040
oh yeah i mean um again you know with

1185
00:46:23,510 --> 00:46:20,160
the feedback i get i mean um i've got

1186
00:46:26,230 --> 00:46:23,520
probably at least 15 or 16 reports uh

1187
00:46:28,710 --> 00:46:26,240
from this year alone of men in black and

1188
00:46:32,069 --> 00:46:28,720
two or three of women in black and

1189
00:46:34,470 --> 00:46:32,079
you know the same for 2015 2014 and so

1190
00:46:35,349 --> 00:46:34,480
on um one of the stories i've got in the

1191
00:46:37,510 --> 00:46:35,359
book

1192
00:46:39,990 --> 00:46:37,520
um involves a woman named christina

1193
00:46:43,349 --> 00:46:40,000
george who just a couple of years ago

1194
00:46:45,510 --> 00:46:43,359
had a very weird experience um with this

1195
00:46:47,030 --> 00:46:45,520
sort of woman in black and also with two

1196
00:46:49,990 --> 00:46:47,040
children with her

1197
00:46:51,829 --> 00:46:50,000
who was standing outside of her property

1198
00:46:55,510 --> 00:46:51,839
one particular day

1199
00:46:58,710 --> 00:46:55,520
and who acted in very strange fashion

1200
00:47:01,030 --> 00:46:58,720
and almost sort of mind controlled her

1201
00:47:03,430 --> 00:47:01,040
flatmates

1202
00:47:05,030 --> 00:47:03,440
and they didn't try to get in the house

1203
00:47:07,510 --> 00:47:05,040
but they were clearly

1204
00:47:09,349 --> 00:47:07,520
watching very closely what christina was

1205
00:47:12,230 --> 00:47:09,359
doing and what was interesting is that

1206
00:47:15,030 --> 00:47:12,240
this woman in black and these two creepy

1207
00:47:17,270 --> 00:47:15,040
kids who she said actually had solid

1208
00:47:19,190 --> 00:47:17,280
black eyes like a black-eyed children

1209
00:47:21,829 --> 00:47:19,200
the three of them turned up

1210
00:47:25,349 --> 00:47:21,839
um immediately after christine had been

1211
00:47:28,390 --> 00:47:25,359
doing a paranormal investigation

1212
00:47:31,270 --> 00:47:28,400
and um and i think it actually comes

1213
00:47:34,230 --> 00:47:31,280
across very much almost like um you know

1214
00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:34,240
a supernatural saga than it does a ufo

1215
00:47:36,950 --> 00:47:36,240
one there's no actual ufo component in

1216
00:47:38,950 --> 00:47:36,960
it

1217
00:47:40,950 --> 00:47:38,960
but you've got as i said these creepy

1218
00:47:43,349 --> 00:47:40,960
characters on the doorstep

1219
00:47:44,790 --> 00:47:43,359
and coming up with the ruse as to why

1220
00:47:46,870 --> 00:47:44,800
they're there in this case they were

1221
00:47:48,309 --> 00:47:46,880
looking for a lost cat

1222
00:47:50,470 --> 00:47:48,319
and um

1223
00:47:53,990 --> 00:47:50,480
but everything sort of smacked of

1224
00:47:56,550 --> 00:47:54,000
it being orchestrated and staged and a

1225
00:47:58,470 --> 00:47:56,560
very very weird case another one uh i

1226
00:48:01,829 --> 00:47:58,480
talk about a florida woman who's active

1227
00:48:04,150 --> 00:48:01,839
in ufology denise stoner and um

1228
00:48:06,069 --> 00:48:04,160
she had a couple of women in black

1229
00:48:07,750 --> 00:48:06,079
experiences just about two or three

1230
00:48:10,230 --> 00:48:07,760
years ago where

1231
00:48:12,069 --> 00:48:10,240
at the height of her investigations one

1232
00:48:14,390 --> 00:48:12,079
particular day there was a

1233
00:48:15,589 --> 00:48:14,400
constant non-stop ringing on the

1234
00:48:17,109 --> 00:48:15,599
doorbell

1235
00:48:20,630 --> 00:48:17,119
she went to the door looked through the

1236
00:48:24,630 --> 00:48:20,640
spy hole and there were two um of these

1237
00:48:28,069 --> 00:48:24,640
again wig wearing huge sunglasses um

1238
00:48:30,069 --> 00:48:28,079
pale faced um women in black who looked

1239
00:48:32,390 --> 00:48:30,079
almost identical to each other just

1240
00:48:35,109 --> 00:48:32,400
standing there on the doorstep and you

1241
00:48:37,109 --> 00:48:35,119
know she didn't open the door but um

1242
00:48:38,710 --> 00:48:37,119
it kind of amazes a lot of people when

1243
00:48:41,349 --> 00:48:38,720
they realize that

1244
00:48:43,430 --> 00:48:41,359
you know the the number of reports

1245
00:48:44,230 --> 00:48:43,440
of sightings and encounters the men in

1246
00:48:46,870 --> 00:48:44,240
black

1247
00:48:48,390 --> 00:48:46,880
going on

1248
00:48:51,190 --> 00:48:48,400
you know all the time that the

1249
00:48:54,069 --> 00:48:51,200
phenomenon i think is obviously you know

1250
00:48:56,470 --> 00:48:54,079
primarily being seen as one of the 50s

1251
00:48:58,870 --> 00:48:56,480
through the 70s for the most part but

1252
00:49:00,710 --> 00:48:58,880
i think i think a lot of people and i do

1253
00:49:02,150 --> 00:49:00,720
get this feedback and i think it is one

1254
00:49:03,510 --> 00:49:02,160
of the reasons why a lot of people don't

1255
00:49:05,109 --> 00:49:03,520
talk about them

1256
00:49:06,790 --> 00:49:05,119
is because

1257
00:49:08,790 --> 00:49:06,800
they worry that people are going to say

1258
00:49:09,589 --> 00:49:08,800
oh you've just overdosed on watching too

1259
00:49:11,510 --> 00:49:09,599
many

1260
00:49:15,510 --> 00:49:11,520
will smith and tommy lee jones men in

1261
00:49:17,430 --> 00:49:15,520
black book movies you know um so i think

1262
00:49:18,630 --> 00:49:17,440
ironically although the men in black

1263
00:49:20,470 --> 00:49:18,640
movies

1264
00:49:22,870 --> 00:49:20,480
have given the the mystery of the men in

1265
00:49:25,030 --> 00:49:22,880
black more visibility

1266
00:49:28,230 --> 00:49:25,040
it's actually made people more reluctant

1267
00:49:29,510 --> 00:49:28,240
to talk about their experiences because

1268
00:49:31,910 --> 00:49:29,520
people think they're lying after

1269
00:49:34,390 --> 00:49:31,920
watching the movies or whatever

1270
00:49:36,470 --> 00:49:34,400
so how then do you separate

1271
00:49:39,990 --> 00:49:36,480
the possible influence of the movies

1272
00:49:42,069 --> 00:49:40,000
from possible real encounters here

1273
00:49:43,430 --> 00:49:42,079
well i mean from my perspective you do

1274
00:49:45,589 --> 00:49:43,440
it the same way

1275
00:49:46,630 --> 00:49:45,599
you would any investigation you know you

1276
00:49:48,230 --> 00:49:46,640
look

1277
00:49:50,710 --> 00:49:48,240
you listen to the story you ask the

1278
00:49:52,470 --> 00:49:50,720
person to tell it again

1279
00:49:54,630 --> 00:49:52,480
you know you

1280
00:49:56,630 --> 00:49:54,640
you become i mean i think most of us in

1281
00:49:58,549 --> 00:49:56,640
the subject when you speak to people all

1282
00:50:00,309 --> 00:49:58,559
the time you become a judge a good judge

1283
00:50:02,790 --> 00:50:00,319
of character

1284
00:50:04,710 --> 00:50:02,800
you know you can tell if somebody's

1285
00:50:06,230 --> 00:50:04,720
sort of you know

1286
00:50:07,910 --> 00:50:06,240
trying to pull the wall over your eyes

1287
00:50:09,990 --> 00:50:07,920
or if they're trying to

1288
00:50:11,030 --> 00:50:10,000
fabricate a story

1289
00:50:12,710 --> 00:50:11,040
um

1290
00:50:14,870 --> 00:50:12,720
you know and if they say one of the

1291
00:50:16,790 --> 00:50:14,880
things i often do um you know if

1292
00:50:20,309 --> 00:50:16,800
somebody says i have no interest in the

1293
00:50:21,589 --> 00:50:20,319
ufo subject um i've caught out a couple

1294
00:50:24,390 --> 00:50:21,599
of people over the years when they said

1295
00:50:26,630 --> 00:50:24,400
well i've had no interest in ufos at all

1296
00:50:28,710 --> 00:50:26,640
did this experience happened

1297
00:50:30,549 --> 00:50:28,720
and you know and i've said you know can

1298
00:50:32,390 --> 00:50:30,559
i use the bathroom at some point and you

1299
00:50:34,549 --> 00:50:32,400
just kind of when you go to the bathroom

1300
00:50:36,630 --> 00:50:34,559
just look around for any bookshelves and

1301
00:50:38,710 --> 00:50:36,640
on two occasions i found

1302
00:50:40,549 --> 00:50:38,720
one where the house had got like 20 30

1303
00:50:42,069 --> 00:50:40,559
ufo books the other one was stacked with

1304
00:50:43,030 --> 00:50:42,079
ufo books

1305
00:50:45,750 --> 00:50:43,040
you know

1306
00:50:48,710 --> 00:50:45,760
they clearly were fully aware of the ufo

1307
00:50:50,630 --> 00:50:48,720
phenomenon so those kind of stories

1308
00:50:54,230 --> 00:50:50,640
didn't make the books now that that

1309
00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:54,240
wasn't in relation to you to um

1310
00:50:57,990 --> 00:50:55,680
men in black i should stress that was

1311
00:51:00,549 --> 00:50:58,000
ufos in general but

1312
00:51:02,870 --> 00:51:00,559
you know you have to be very careful how

1313
00:51:04,069 --> 00:51:02,880
you accept the story now i think most

1314
00:51:05,589 --> 00:51:04,079
witnesses

1315
00:51:07,190 --> 00:51:05,599
are

1316
00:51:08,630 --> 00:51:07,200
genuine you know i think most the people

1317
00:51:11,270 --> 00:51:08,640
i've interviewed are genuine they're

1318
00:51:15,349 --> 00:51:11,280
just genuinely mystified by what they've

1319
00:51:16,870 --> 00:51:15,359
seen or experienced or encountered but

1320
00:51:19,030 --> 00:51:16,880
you have to be

1321
00:51:21,109 --> 00:51:19,040
unbiased and look at each case on its

1322
00:51:23,430 --> 00:51:21,119
own merits and you know just because i

1323
00:51:25,270 --> 00:51:23,440
get a new women in black case it doesn't

1324
00:51:26,870 --> 00:51:25,280
mean i'm sort of leaping up and down

1325
00:51:28,790 --> 00:51:26,880
excited i just

1326
00:51:30,870 --> 00:51:28,800
you know look at each one as it comes

1327
00:51:32,630 --> 00:51:30,880
along and see where it leads or where it

1328
00:51:34,309 --> 00:51:32,640
doesn't lead you know we're going to

1329
00:51:35,670 --> 00:51:34,319
lead to this for a few moments and then

1330
00:51:37,510 --> 00:51:35,680
we'll be back with

1331
00:51:39,750 --> 00:51:37,520
nick redfearn talking about women in

1332
00:51:50,630 --> 00:51:39,760
black and more with gene and chris

1333
00:51:55,390 --> 00:51:54,069
thank you for listening to gcn

1334
00:51:58,150 --> 00:51:55,400
be sure to visit

1335
00:52:00,150 --> 00:51:58,160
gcnlive.com today

1336
00:52:02,470 --> 00:52:00,160
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1340
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1341
00:52:12,470 --> 00:52:09,920
officer is haunted by intense dreams

1342
00:52:14,790 --> 00:52:12,480
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

1343
00:52:15,910 --> 00:52:14,800
help after a terrible battle in outer

1344
00:52:18,069 --> 00:52:15,920
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1345
00:52:19,990 --> 00:52:18,079
but the dreams turn out to be true and

1346
00:52:22,710 --> 00:52:20,000
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1347
00:52:25,190 --> 00:52:22,720
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1348
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1349
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1350
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1354
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1366
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1370
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1375
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1385
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1386
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[Applause]

1387
00:54:13,829 --> 00:54:10,240
welcome back to the paracast the gold

1388
00:54:15,109 --> 00:54:13,839
standard of paranormal radio

1389
00:54:18,420 --> 00:54:15,119
and now

1390
00:54:22,150 --> 00:54:18,430
here's gene steinberg

1391
00:54:26,390 --> 00:54:23,190
women

1392
00:54:27,829 --> 00:54:26,400
in black doing your interviews of

1393
00:54:29,750 --> 00:54:27,839
witnesses

1394
00:54:32,390 --> 00:54:29,760
do you find because of the fact that

1395
00:54:35,510 --> 00:54:32,400
popular culture has been so polluted

1396
00:54:37,349 --> 00:54:35,520
with the men in black legend

1397
00:54:39,270 --> 00:54:37,359
particularly after the movies came out

1398
00:54:41,430 --> 00:54:39,280
and then we have of course things like

1399
00:54:43,270 --> 00:54:41,440
x-files how do you separate that

1400
00:54:44,230 --> 00:54:43,280
influence from a possible real event

1401
00:54:46,150 --> 00:54:44,240
nick

1402
00:54:48,150 --> 00:54:46,160
well again you know the i think the only

1403
00:54:49,109 --> 00:54:48,160
time it comes into the equation is if a

1404
00:54:50,870 --> 00:54:49,119
person

1405
00:54:52,390 --> 00:54:50,880
is fabricating something and they've

1406
00:54:55,349 --> 00:54:52,400
been inspired by

1407
00:54:56,950 --> 00:54:55,359
the movies or the tv shows i think

1408
00:54:58,790 --> 00:54:56,960
you know for the rest of the time it

1409
00:55:01,349 --> 00:54:58,800
doesn't really

1410
00:55:04,390 --> 00:55:01,359
where things like the x-files possibly

1411
00:55:07,030 --> 00:55:04,400
benefited ufology was he actually made

1412
00:55:09,430 --> 00:55:07,040
the subject more popular and encouraged

1413
00:55:11,670 --> 00:55:09,440
people to come forward because

1414
00:55:14,069 --> 00:55:11,680
you know it was in the public eye

1415
00:55:16,230 --> 00:55:14,079
and more people coming forward so more

1416
00:55:18,390 --> 00:55:16,240
people felt comfortable about coming

1417
00:55:20,390 --> 00:55:18,400
forward you know it's like a rolling

1418
00:55:22,069 --> 00:55:20,400
spiraling situation

1419
00:55:24,549 --> 00:55:22,079
so i don't think

1420
00:55:25,910 --> 00:55:24,559
i don't think movies are such

1421
00:55:27,270 --> 00:55:25,920
problems i mean i could be wrong but i

1422
00:55:30,470 --> 00:55:27,280
don't think movies

1423
00:55:32,069 --> 00:55:30,480
such prompt people to fake events i

1424
00:55:33,750 --> 00:55:32,079
think in some cases they encourage them

1425
00:55:35,349 --> 00:55:33,760
to talk but like i said with the men in

1426
00:55:36,390 --> 00:55:35,359
black i think it's the opposite i think

1427
00:55:38,150 --> 00:55:36,400
people

1428
00:55:40,230 --> 00:55:38,160
see the men in black mystery are so

1429
00:55:42,069 --> 00:55:40,240
weird it could only be a hollywood

1430
00:55:43,829 --> 00:55:42,079
creation unless they were you know they

1431
00:55:46,230 --> 00:55:43,839
were well versed on the ufo subject

1432
00:55:47,670 --> 00:55:46,240
which most people aren't you know

1433
00:55:50,470 --> 00:55:47,680
because they're just not interested in

1434
00:55:52,710 --> 00:55:50,480
it um so when somebody tells them you

1435
00:55:55,030 --> 00:55:52,720
know oh i saw a man in black

1436
00:55:56,710 --> 00:55:55,040
they're like what i mean those guys off

1437
00:55:58,549 --> 00:55:56,720
you know from the movies you mean no a

1438
00:56:00,309 --> 00:55:58,559
real burning black well no there's no

1439
00:56:02,069 --> 00:56:00,319
such thing hollywood made them up no

1440
00:56:04,230 --> 00:56:02,079
they didn't you know it's kind of that

1441
00:56:06,789 --> 00:56:04,240
situation that's when i think you know

1442
00:56:09,670 --> 00:56:06,799
it causes problems well you know looking

1443
00:56:12,549 --> 00:56:09,680
at the the real legitimate cases that

1444
00:56:14,150 --> 00:56:12,559
kind of pass your investigative muster

1445
00:56:17,109 --> 00:56:14,160
have you come to any any sort of

1446
00:56:18,470 --> 00:56:17,119
potential theories on what these beings

1447
00:56:20,069 --> 00:56:18,480
are

1448
00:56:20,870 --> 00:56:20,079
where they're from and what their agenda

1449
00:56:23,510 --> 00:56:20,880
is

1450
00:56:26,950 --> 00:56:23,520
well i mean in terms of the agenda they

1451
00:56:28,789 --> 00:56:26,960
don't just turn up in ufo cases i mean a

1452
00:56:30,230 --> 00:56:28,799
classic example it would be like we

1453
00:56:32,150 --> 00:56:30,240
mentioned earlier point pleasant west

1454
00:56:35,430 --> 00:56:32,160
virginia where they turn up

1455
00:56:38,549 --> 00:56:35,440
in relation to ufos and uh

1456
00:56:41,109 --> 00:56:38,559
you know the um mothman sightings things

1457
00:56:43,750 --> 00:56:41,119
like that i've got a few weird cases in

1458
00:56:46,789 --> 00:56:43,760
the book where people had seen bigfoot

1459
00:56:48,150 --> 00:56:46,799
and strange creatures had

1460
00:56:50,230 --> 00:56:48,160
men and black and women in black in

1461
00:56:52,710 --> 00:56:50,240
cancers there's a couple of well-known

1462
00:56:53,589 --> 00:56:52,720
famous men in black encounters at loch

1463
00:56:54,950 --> 00:56:53,599
ness

1464
00:56:57,430 --> 00:56:54,960
uh people who are looking for the loch

1465
00:56:58,789 --> 00:56:57,440
ness monsters as bizarre as it all

1466
00:57:00,870 --> 00:56:58,799
sounds so

1467
00:57:03,349 --> 00:57:00,880
the imagery that people get to start

1468
00:57:05,910 --> 00:57:03,359
with is that they silence people who see

1469
00:57:07,910 --> 00:57:05,920
ufos but it actually goes far beyond

1470
00:57:10,230 --> 00:57:07,920
that that goes to the women in black and

1471
00:57:12,950 --> 00:57:10,240
the men in black it covers

1472
00:57:14,549 --> 00:57:12,960
numerous aspects of the paranormal and

1473
00:57:16,950 --> 00:57:14,559
and certainly you know i mentioned this

1474
00:57:19,750 --> 00:57:16,960
before but without doubt in you know at

1475
00:57:20,870 --> 00:57:19,760
least the last sort of 22 23 years you

1476
00:57:21,910 --> 00:57:20,880
know my

1477
00:57:24,549 --> 00:57:21,920
views

1478
00:57:27,109 --> 00:57:24,559
changed a long time ago from just

1479
00:57:29,589 --> 00:57:27,119
believing that all this phenomena is

1480
00:57:31,349 --> 00:57:29,599
extraterrestrial you know i think we're

1481
00:57:33,190 --> 00:57:31,359
dealing with something that's sort of

1482
00:57:35,829 --> 00:57:33,200
far closer to home

1483
00:57:36,870 --> 00:57:35,839
maybe co-exists alongside us

1484
00:57:39,270 --> 00:57:36,880
maybe even

1485
00:57:43,670 --> 00:57:39,280
masquerade as extraterrestrial

1486
00:57:46,710 --> 00:57:43,680
but he's not good old 1950s donald kehoe

1487
00:57:48,789 --> 00:57:46,720
ufology you know for me that here is as

1488
00:57:50,150 --> 00:57:48,799
dead as a t-rex you know

1489
00:57:52,309 --> 00:57:50,160
take notes gene

1490
00:57:54,870 --> 00:57:52,319
i am taking notes don't even mention the

1491
00:57:56,549 --> 00:57:54,880
keyhole word yeah because then somebody

1492
00:57:58,230 --> 00:57:56,559
somewhere is playing the keogh game will

1493
00:58:00,230 --> 00:57:58,240
have to take a shot

1494
00:58:02,069 --> 00:58:00,240
oh well let him

1495
00:58:04,870 --> 00:58:02,079
you can't help it because

1496
00:58:07,030 --> 00:58:04,880
the thing is here so many things in

1497
00:58:09,510 --> 00:58:07,040
the ufo field are unchanged over the

1498
00:58:11,349 --> 00:58:09,520
years but let's talk about changes

1499
00:58:13,829 --> 00:58:11,359
comparing the first reports of men in

1500
00:58:15,349 --> 00:58:13,839
black in the 50s and the early reports

1501
00:58:16,950 --> 00:58:15,359
of women in black

1502
00:58:19,589 --> 00:58:16,960
has any of that

1503
00:58:22,630 --> 00:58:19,599
undergone any change whatever in the

1504
00:58:25,349 --> 00:58:22,640
ensuing 60 years or so only from the

1505
00:58:27,670 --> 00:58:25,359
perception of the public and from the

1506
00:58:29,829 --> 00:58:27,680
perception of a lot of people in ufology

1507
00:58:31,589 --> 00:58:29,839
who may not be overly

1508
00:58:33,430 --> 00:58:31,599
conversant with the men in black

1509
00:58:35,589 --> 00:58:33,440
mysteries you know they think from the

1510
00:58:37,910 --> 00:58:35,599
government until you read the reports

1511
00:58:40,150 --> 00:58:37,920
but you know back in the 50s

1512
00:58:41,910 --> 00:58:40,160
you know when you have people like um

1513
00:58:45,670 --> 00:58:41,920
albert bender

1514
00:58:46,870 --> 00:58:45,680
and um you know grey barker and kale and

1515
00:58:48,789 --> 00:58:46,880
steiger

1516
00:58:52,549 --> 00:58:48,799
you know most of the reports that reach

1517
00:58:53,829 --> 00:58:52,559
them were of these sort of stranger pale

1518
00:58:55,750 --> 00:58:53,839
skinny

1519
00:58:57,589 --> 00:58:55,760
weird men in black who didn't seem to

1520
00:59:00,150 --> 00:58:57,599
understand our mannerisms they didn't

1521
00:59:02,230 --> 00:59:00,160
understand our food they talked in a

1522
00:59:03,589 --> 00:59:02,240
weird fashion as if they didn't really

1523
00:59:06,069 --> 00:59:03,599
understand what they were saying it was

1524
00:59:07,510 --> 00:59:06,079
almost like they were paraphrasing

1525
00:59:09,270 --> 00:59:07,520
you know the words without actually

1526
00:59:12,710 --> 00:59:09,280
understanding what they meant

1527
00:59:14,309 --> 00:59:12,720
and the reports i get today i still like

1528
00:59:17,109 --> 00:59:14,319
that you know the reports i get of the

1529
00:59:19,430 --> 00:59:17,119
men in black today are of guys turning

1530
00:59:21,910 --> 00:59:19,440
up late at night on the doorstep in

1531
00:59:25,190 --> 00:59:21,920
fedoras and skinny black tires you know

1532
00:59:27,990 --> 00:59:25,200
like something straight out of a 1950s

1533
00:59:29,270 --> 00:59:28,000
gangster movie except for the fact that

1534
00:59:30,789 --> 00:59:29,280
physically

1535
00:59:33,030 --> 00:59:30,799
they look very

1536
00:59:35,109 --> 00:59:33,040
sort of creepy and strange you know they

1537
00:59:37,430 --> 00:59:35,119
look like a cross between

1538
00:59:38,950 --> 00:59:37,440
you know having anorexia and having

1539
00:59:40,710 --> 00:59:38,960
anemia that's the best way you can

1540
00:59:41,990 --> 00:59:40,720
describe them you know they just look

1541
00:59:42,870 --> 00:59:42,000
unhealthy

1542
00:59:48,230 --> 00:59:42,880
and

1543
00:59:49,510 --> 00:59:48,240
so nothing has changed that much in

1544
00:59:52,630 --> 00:59:49,520
terms of what the witnesses have

1545
00:59:54,470 --> 00:59:52,640
reported since the past but you know

1546
00:59:56,390 --> 00:59:54,480
it's just kind of

1547
00:59:58,470 --> 00:59:56,400
ufology's fault i think is probably the

1548
01:00:01,270 --> 00:59:58,480
best way to describe it

1549
01:00:03,430 --> 01:00:01,280
in not letting or not necessarily

1550
01:00:05,589 --> 01:00:03,440
getting across to people

1551
01:00:07,990 --> 01:00:05,599
the reality of the men in black mystery

1552
01:00:09,430 --> 01:00:08,000
and instead letting people think oh well

1553
01:00:12,150 --> 01:00:09,440
they're obviously from some secret

1554
01:00:14,950 --> 01:00:12,160
agency from the pentagon or whatever

1555
01:00:16,710 --> 01:00:14,960
that assumption exists because most

1556
01:00:17,829 --> 01:00:16,720
people in the subject don't bother to do

1557
01:00:18,630 --> 01:00:17,839
anything

1558
01:00:24,150 --> 01:00:18,640
to

1559
01:00:26,630 --> 01:00:24,160
leave it alone

1560
01:00:29,829 --> 01:00:26,640
yeah i only have one

1561
01:00:31,829 --> 01:00:29,839
case um in my files

1562
01:00:32,950 --> 01:00:31,839
from my san luis valley investigations

1563
01:00:35,670 --> 01:00:32,960
and it was a

1564
01:00:38,230 --> 01:00:35,680
an experiencer who went through a

1565
01:00:40,630 --> 01:00:38,240
a period where her mail was being rifled

1566
01:00:42,390 --> 01:00:40,640
through and then then being stolen

1567
01:00:44,470 --> 01:00:42,400
stuff that she knew that she was being

1568
01:00:46,470 --> 01:00:44,480
sent would never arrive

1569
01:00:48,390 --> 01:00:46,480
and she said one day she

1570
01:00:50,390 --> 01:00:48,400
she just happened to look down she had a

1571
01:00:53,109 --> 01:00:50,400
driveway that was quite long several

1572
01:00:55,829 --> 01:00:53,119
hundred yards long and she saw

1573
01:00:58,069 --> 01:00:55,839
what she described as an old-fashioned

1574
01:00:59,430 --> 01:00:58,079
you know luxury car black

1575
01:01:02,710 --> 01:00:59,440
and she said

1576
01:01:04,470 --> 01:01:02,720
two guys were going through her mailbox

1577
01:01:05,510 --> 01:01:04,480
and i asked her to describe them and she

1578
01:01:11,349 --> 01:01:05,520
said well

1579
01:01:15,349 --> 01:01:13,670
now she told me this

1580
01:01:17,990 --> 01:01:15,359
she said that she had actually filed a

1581
01:01:20,069 --> 01:01:18,000
report with the county sheriff

1582
01:01:22,390 --> 01:01:20,079
and i verified that with the sheriff's

1583
01:01:25,030 --> 01:01:22,400
office and a report have been filed plus

1584
01:01:27,349 --> 01:01:25,040
she had filed a report with the um the

1585
01:01:29,750 --> 01:01:27,359
the postal inspector uh the regional

1586
01:01:31,750 --> 01:01:29,760
postal inspector and and they they

1587
01:01:33,990 --> 01:01:31,760
actually opened a case file

1588
01:01:36,870 --> 01:01:34,000
on on on her claim

1589
01:01:38,710 --> 01:01:36,880
and she was forced actually i mean it

1590
01:01:41,349 --> 01:01:38,720
got so bad that she was trying to

1591
01:01:42,789 --> 01:01:41,359
monitor her mailbox as much as she could

1592
01:01:44,549 --> 01:01:42,799
and she ended up having to get a post

1593
01:01:47,270 --> 01:01:44,559
office box in town

1594
01:01:49,750 --> 01:01:47,280
um because because of this you know

1595
01:01:51,670 --> 01:01:49,760
constant problem of of the in and they

1596
01:01:52,789 --> 01:01:51,680
would go through and

1597
01:01:54,230 --> 01:01:52,799
and tear

1598
01:01:57,109 --> 01:01:54,240
some of this stuff up and just leave it

1599
01:01:59,990 --> 01:01:57,119
on the ground even uh very very bizarre

1600
01:02:02,069 --> 01:02:00,000
um and they never came to the door

1601
01:02:03,349 --> 01:02:02,079
and she was she was kind of happy about

1602
01:02:06,710 --> 01:02:03,359
that because she

1603
01:02:08,390 --> 01:02:06,720
just was really weirded out by it so

1604
01:02:09,670 --> 01:02:08,400
because my name isn't really associated

1605
01:02:12,069 --> 01:02:09,680
with the subject

1606
01:02:13,829 --> 01:02:12,079
possibly or maybe we didn't have very

1607
01:02:15,670 --> 01:02:13,839
many of them going around it you know

1608
01:02:17,670 --> 01:02:15,680
during that time period in the 90s so

1609
01:02:20,309 --> 01:02:17,680
that's the only real

1610
01:02:21,589 --> 01:02:20,319
i think you know claim that i have in my

1611
01:02:24,069 --> 01:02:21,599
files but

1612
01:02:25,990 --> 01:02:24,079
it really at the time it it sort of

1613
01:02:27,750 --> 01:02:26,000
kind of forced me to go back into the

1614
01:02:29,910 --> 01:02:27,760
into the literature and really uh

1615
01:02:33,270 --> 01:02:29,920
reacquaint myself and and get up to

1616
01:02:34,950 --> 01:02:33,280
speed on on the whole um phenomenon

1617
01:02:37,510 --> 01:02:34,960
one of my favorite

1618
01:02:40,549 --> 01:02:37,520
accounts comes from uh jacques villa's

1619
01:02:42,470 --> 01:02:40,559
book messengers of deception

1620
01:02:44,150 --> 01:02:42,480
i i think it was a case where wasn't it

1621
01:02:45,589 --> 01:02:44,160
the case where the

1622
01:02:47,750 --> 01:02:45,599
the man in black

1623
01:02:48,950 --> 01:02:47,760
sat down and was given some jello and he

1624
01:02:51,990 --> 01:02:48,960
tried to eat it with a knife or

1625
01:02:55,910 --> 01:02:54,309
he tried to drink it actually he

1626
01:02:58,069 --> 01:02:55,920
tried to drink it

1627
01:02:59,750 --> 01:02:58,079
yeah but there's a lot of weird stories

1628
01:03:01,910 --> 01:02:59,760
like that in relation to the men in

1629
01:03:04,230 --> 01:03:01,920
black and women like in relation to food

1630
01:03:05,430 --> 01:03:04,240
and drink they kind of just stare at it

1631
01:03:07,670 --> 01:03:05,440
as if they don't know

1632
01:03:09,030 --> 01:03:07,680
what to do with it but i mean one of the

1633
01:03:11,109 --> 01:03:09,040
interesting things when you just said

1634
01:03:13,270 --> 01:03:11,119
about you know without the witness you

1635
01:03:14,829 --> 01:03:13,280
were talking about how some of a male

1636
01:03:17,349 --> 01:03:14,839
was just torn up and

1637
01:03:19,990 --> 01:03:17,359
whatever that's actually things like

1638
01:03:21,589 --> 01:03:20,000
that happen quite often where the men in

1639
01:03:23,829 --> 01:03:21,599
black and the women in black go out

1640
01:03:25,910 --> 01:03:23,839
there go out of their way to let the no

1641
01:03:28,069 --> 01:03:25,920
the witness know they're being watched

1642
01:03:29,589 --> 01:03:28,079
or played with or intimidated you know

1643
01:03:31,190 --> 01:03:29,599
in other words if

1644
01:03:32,630 --> 01:03:31,200
the woman hadn't seen them at the

1645
01:03:34,549 --> 01:03:32,640
mailbox and she hadn't found the

1646
01:03:36,630 --> 01:03:34,559
tournament mail

1647
01:03:38,710 --> 01:03:36,640
she might just thought you know

1648
01:03:40,549 --> 01:03:38,720
there wasn't any mail

1649
01:03:41,990 --> 01:03:40,559
we have nick redfearn talking about

1650
01:03:43,990 --> 01:03:42,000
women in black

1651
01:03:45,750 --> 01:03:44,000
people in black were things in black

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1760
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1761
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and don't forget to visit our famous

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okay so

1765
01:08:26,870 --> 01:08:25,040
interesting point you made nick redfearn

1766
01:08:27,910 --> 01:08:26,880
that maybe

1767
01:08:29,910 --> 01:08:27,920
these

1768
01:08:33,030 --> 01:08:29,920
beings whatever they are

1769
01:08:34,950 --> 01:08:33,040
are drawing attention to themselves by

1770
01:08:36,709 --> 01:08:34,960
nature of their actions such as tearing

1771
01:08:38,789 --> 01:08:36,719
up someone's email

1772
01:08:41,349 --> 01:08:38,799
someone's physical mail

1773
01:08:43,669 --> 01:08:41,359
yeah and i think the reason why they go

1774
01:08:45,430 --> 01:08:43,679
out of their way to be seen is because

1775
01:08:47,349 --> 01:08:45,440
the only way you can intimidate a person

1776
01:08:49,349 --> 01:08:47,359
is if you let them know you know that

1777
01:08:51,349 --> 01:08:49,359
you're being watched or whatever you

1778
01:08:53,669 --> 01:08:51,359
know if the person's blissfully unaware

1779
01:08:54,630 --> 01:08:53,679
of it well it is a case of ignorance is

1780
01:08:56,229 --> 01:08:54,640
bliss

1781
01:08:57,590 --> 01:08:56,239
you know the only way to frighten the

1782
01:08:59,829 --> 01:08:57,600
people is to

1783
01:09:01,510 --> 01:08:59,839
stand outside their house or

1784
01:09:04,229 --> 01:09:01,520
get out of the car and stare through the

1785
01:09:05,669 --> 01:09:04,239
window or make weird phone calls at 2

1786
01:09:07,910 --> 01:09:05,679
a.m in the morning you know and the

1787
01:09:09,910 --> 01:09:07,920
strange bleeps on the line

1788
01:09:11,910 --> 01:09:09,920
that kind of thing

1789
01:09:14,390 --> 01:09:11,920
i know from speaking to people does sort

1790
01:09:16,309 --> 01:09:14,400
of destabilize them and the men in black

1791
01:09:18,070 --> 01:09:16,319
and women in black reports

1792
01:09:19,189 --> 01:09:18,080
both of them that maybe and the web are

1793
01:09:21,829 --> 01:09:19,199
very good

1794
01:09:24,709 --> 01:09:21,839
at destabilizing people and making them

1795
01:09:26,309 --> 01:09:24,719
paranoid and you know sort of sometimes

1796
01:09:29,269 --> 01:09:26,319
you know have them sort of descend into

1797
01:09:31,669 --> 01:09:29,279
almost like a state of nervous breakdown

1798
01:09:33,669 --> 01:09:31,679
really when this goes on and on

1799
01:09:34,950 --> 01:09:33,679
so you know unfortunately from the

1800
01:09:36,070 --> 01:09:34,960
perspective of the witnesses they're

1801
01:09:38,070 --> 01:09:36,080
very good

1802
01:09:41,110 --> 01:09:38,080
at doing things like that

1803
01:09:43,349 --> 01:09:41,120
you know so i think sometimes

1804
01:09:44,309 --> 01:09:43,359
there's no actual reason for it other

1805
01:09:46,149 --> 01:09:44,319
than

1806
01:09:48,870 --> 01:09:46,159
to let the witness

1807
01:09:50,789 --> 01:09:48,880
see it happening in other words you know

1808
01:09:53,110 --> 01:09:50,799
there may actually be no

1809
01:09:56,229 --> 01:09:53,120
reason why the men in black wanted to

1810
01:09:58,070 --> 01:09:56,239
read the woman's mail the whole point

1811
01:10:00,149 --> 01:09:58,080
may have been that if they did it long

1812
01:10:01,189 --> 01:10:00,159
enough eventually she would see them

1813
01:10:02,870 --> 01:10:01,199
doing it

1814
01:10:04,709 --> 01:10:02,880
and it would have an effect on her and

1815
01:10:06,390 --> 01:10:04,719
that may have been the whole point of it

1816
01:10:08,630 --> 01:10:06,400
yeah that's pretty much the way it

1817
01:10:11,110 --> 01:10:08,640
happened you know many of these accounts

1818
01:10:12,229 --> 01:10:11,120
where they seem to be unfamiliar uh

1819
01:10:13,350 --> 01:10:12,239
almost like

1820
01:10:14,950 --> 01:10:13,360
they're

1821
01:10:17,590 --> 01:10:14,960
uncomfortable in their own skins they

1822
01:10:19,750 --> 01:10:17,600
don't seem to to understand

1823
01:10:22,070 --> 01:10:19,760
uh their surroundings they parrot

1824
01:10:23,990 --> 01:10:22,080
phrases like they

1825
01:10:25,590 --> 01:10:24,000
they're mimicking uh somebody telling

1826
01:10:26,790 --> 01:10:25,600
them what to say and they they're saying

1827
01:10:29,189 --> 01:10:26,800
it but they don't really know what it

1828
01:10:31,750 --> 01:10:29,199
means you know this kind of reminds me

1829
01:10:32,790 --> 01:10:31,760
of almost a temporary entity almost like

1830
01:10:34,709 --> 01:10:32,800
a tulpa

1831
01:10:37,030 --> 01:10:34,719
like these beings are created to do one

1832
01:10:40,390 --> 01:10:37,040
specific thing and and and just don't

1833
01:10:42,709 --> 01:10:40,400
have the um the personal history uh to

1834
01:10:45,030 --> 01:10:42,719
pull it off in a in a completely

1835
01:10:47,030 --> 01:10:45,040
convincing manner it's almost like these

1836
01:10:48,630 --> 01:10:47,040
beings are temporary

1837
01:10:50,149 --> 01:10:48,640
what are your thoughts on that

1838
01:10:52,229 --> 01:10:50,159
oh yeah well that's actually one of the

1839
01:10:53,189 --> 01:10:52,239
interesting theories that the idea that

1840
01:11:00,709 --> 01:10:53,199
they

1841
01:11:02,630 --> 01:11:00,719
like a biological robot or some people

1842
01:11:04,310 --> 01:11:02,640
think they're almost like um

1843
01:11:06,790 --> 01:11:04,320
like that kind of like the matrix

1844
01:11:08,950 --> 01:11:06,800
scenario that if you're in your living

1845
01:11:10,790 --> 01:11:08,960
room being threatened by a man in black

1846
01:11:12,630 --> 01:11:10,800
and somebody else was in the room or

1847
01:11:14,790 --> 01:11:12,640
looking through the window they might

1848
01:11:16,709 --> 01:11:14,800
not see anybody else there

1849
01:11:19,430 --> 01:11:16,719
they might just see you in a weird days

1850
01:11:23,030 --> 01:11:19,440
that the theory is that perhaps the

1851
01:11:25,189 --> 01:11:23,040
entire event is kind of like a highly

1852
01:11:28,470 --> 01:11:25,199
sophisticated 3d

1853
01:11:32,310 --> 01:11:28,480
hologram like a sophisticated computer

1854
01:11:35,430 --> 01:11:32,320
program which is sent out by some bigger

1855
01:11:38,630 --> 01:11:35,440
intelligence to silence people and like

1856
01:11:40,709 --> 01:11:38,640
any program that is rigid and static it

1857
01:11:42,550 --> 01:11:40,719
performs the same task over and over

1858
01:11:44,390 --> 01:11:42,560
again you know that might explain why we

1859
01:11:45,669 --> 01:11:44,400
never catch them why they always vanish

1860
01:11:47,750 --> 01:11:45,679
at the door

1861
01:11:50,070 --> 01:11:47,760
why the person always feels in like a

1862
01:11:52,390 --> 01:11:50,080
weirded out state when they're being

1863
01:11:54,790 --> 01:11:52,400
grilled by them you know the idea that

1864
01:11:57,430 --> 01:11:54,800
they really are temporary but they're

1865
01:11:59,510 --> 01:11:57,440
also so sophisticated

1866
01:12:01,229 --> 01:11:59,520
in their creation if you like that they

1867
01:12:03,110 --> 01:12:01,239
are somehow

1868
01:12:05,669 --> 01:12:03,120
semi-self-aware of what they're doing

1869
01:12:07,110 --> 01:12:05,679
but they're not really sure why and that

1870
01:12:09,110 --> 01:12:07,120
might explain

1871
01:12:11,510 --> 01:12:09,120
why even they seem

1872
01:12:13,750 --> 01:12:11,520
not fully aware of why they're actually

1873
01:12:16,630 --> 01:12:13,760
threatening people just a thought that

1874
01:12:18,310 --> 01:12:16,640
came to me here we see these

1875
01:12:19,430 --> 01:12:18,320
almost unreal

1876
01:12:21,830 --> 01:12:19,440
beings

1877
01:12:23,830 --> 01:12:21,840
what about the people who see them is

1878
01:12:25,350 --> 01:12:23,840
there anything common about them other

1879
01:12:27,350 --> 01:12:25,360
than maybe having experienced a

1880
01:12:29,430 --> 01:12:27,360
paranormal event nothing in their

1881
01:12:31,750 --> 01:12:29,440
background that would be common

1882
01:12:33,990 --> 01:12:31,760
there's nothing so much common in terms

1883
01:12:34,870 --> 01:12:34,000
of like physical traits or anything like

1884
01:12:40,550 --> 01:12:34,880
that

1885
01:12:42,310 --> 01:12:40,560
where even if there seems to be a strong

1886
01:12:44,709 --> 01:12:42,320
ufo angle

1887
01:12:46,229 --> 01:12:44,719
prior to getting involved in ufology a

1888
01:12:47,990 --> 01:12:46,239
lot of the people who've seen the women

1889
01:12:49,270 --> 01:12:48,000
in black in particular

1890
01:12:51,350 --> 01:12:49,280
less or so with the men in black but

1891
01:12:54,070 --> 01:12:51,360
still a lot prior to getting into

1892
01:12:58,229 --> 01:12:54,080
ufology they are involved in sort of far

1893
01:13:00,470 --> 01:12:58,239
more darker paranormal research and work

1894
01:13:03,590 --> 01:13:00,480
and then they kind of gravitated towards

1895
01:13:05,750 --> 01:13:03,600
ufology after that but many of them were

1896
01:13:06,790 --> 01:13:05,760
sort of very sort of learned in the

1897
01:13:09,350 --> 01:13:06,800
occult

1898
01:13:10,070 --> 01:13:09,360
and rituals and rights and you know as

1899
01:13:13,750 --> 01:13:10,080
if

1900
01:13:16,470 --> 01:13:13,760
the attention

1901
01:13:18,790 --> 01:13:16,480
of these entities in some cases actually

1902
01:13:21,510 --> 01:13:18,800
isn't a ufo component with the women in

1903
01:13:23,350 --> 01:13:21,520
black but there is always some sort of

1904
01:13:25,750 --> 01:13:23,360
paranormal component but a lot of the

1905
01:13:28,310 --> 01:13:25,760
people involved you know have these

1906
01:13:30,390 --> 01:13:28,320
occult overtones now that doesn't

1907
01:13:32,070 --> 01:13:30,400
necessarily mean anything particularly

1908
01:13:35,030 --> 01:13:32,080
you know you could make a good argument

1909
01:13:37,350 --> 01:13:35,040
that somebody who likes watching sci-fi

1910
01:13:39,510 --> 01:13:37,360
is going to like watching horror movies

1911
01:13:41,270 --> 01:13:39,520
in the same way somebody who's into ufos

1912
01:13:44,070 --> 01:13:41,280
might also be into bigfoot it doesn't

1913
01:13:46,390 --> 01:13:44,080
necessarily mean anything but i have

1914
01:13:48,550 --> 01:13:46,400
found a large number of people who have

1915
01:13:50,550 --> 01:13:48,560
had women in black encounters and

1916
01:13:51,669 --> 01:13:50,560
they've been in ufology but they have

1917
01:13:54,709 --> 01:13:51,679
also

1918
01:13:57,350 --> 01:13:54,719
messed with wagerboards and you know as

1919
01:13:59,350 --> 01:13:57,360
i said rituals and rights to you know

1920
01:14:01,110 --> 01:13:59,360
summon up supernatural entities that

1921
01:14:01,990 --> 01:14:01,120
kind of things chris you were going to

1922
01:14:03,830 --> 01:14:02,000
say

1923
01:14:06,550 --> 01:14:03,840
yeah we've already gone by the uh the

1924
01:14:08,550 --> 01:14:06,560
point but um i'll i'll kind of go back

1925
01:14:10,790 --> 01:14:08,560
backwards here you mentioned that they

1926
01:14:14,310 --> 01:14:10,800
don't seem to be self-aware in many

1927
01:14:16,229 --> 01:14:14,320
cases uh they seem to be parroting um an

1928
01:14:17,990 --> 01:14:16,239
agenda that that they possibly don't

1929
01:14:19,830 --> 01:14:18,000
even understand but they're going

1930
01:14:21,830 --> 01:14:19,840
through the motions i mean classic

1931
01:14:23,990 --> 01:14:21,840
tricksterism you know if you look at the

1932
01:14:26,149 --> 01:14:24,000
definition of trickster the trickster is

1933
01:14:27,350 --> 01:14:26,159
not self-aware and it doesn't have a

1934
01:14:29,669 --> 01:14:27,360
specific

1935
01:14:31,270 --> 01:14:29,679
uh personal agenda it would seem to me

1936
01:14:33,430 --> 01:14:31,280
that these are perfect trickster forms

1937
01:14:35,270 --> 01:14:33,440
uh in in the way that they

1938
01:14:36,550 --> 01:14:35,280
are presented it's almost like they're

1939
01:14:38,229 --> 01:14:36,560
going through the motions and they don't

1940
01:14:40,149 --> 01:14:38,239
even realize why and they don't even

1941
01:14:42,310 --> 01:14:40,159
realize that that

1942
01:14:44,149 --> 01:14:42,320
that they're doing it uh really it's

1943
01:14:45,350 --> 01:14:44,159
almost like they're on automatic pilot

1944
01:14:46,870 --> 01:14:45,360
or something

1945
01:14:48,070 --> 01:14:46,880
yeah that's exactly how they are you

1946
01:14:50,950 --> 01:14:48,080
know it's a good way to describe them

1947
01:14:52,550 --> 01:14:50,960
it's like auto automatic pilot but um

1948
01:14:54,950 --> 01:14:52,560
you know one of the interesting things

1949
01:14:57,350 --> 01:14:54,960
is on this issue of them not being sort

1950
01:15:00,149 --> 01:14:57,360
of fully self-aware and the whole

1951
01:15:02,229 --> 01:15:00,159
trickster angle you know they do sort of

1952
01:15:03,270 --> 01:15:02,239
mess with people's minds sometimes in a

1953
01:15:05,590 --> 01:15:03,280
very

1954
01:15:08,470 --> 01:15:05,600
dangerous and ominous fashion but

1955
01:15:10,950 --> 01:15:08,480
sometimes just in a weird way like for

1956
01:15:12,790 --> 01:15:10,960
example there are cases where

1957
01:15:14,550 --> 01:15:12,800
um men and black and women in black have

1958
01:15:16,149 --> 01:15:14,560
been in people's homes and it's almost

1959
01:15:18,390 --> 01:15:16,159
like they've been

1960
01:15:20,470 --> 01:15:18,400
they're forced to to steal something and

1961
01:15:22,390 --> 01:15:20,480
take it with them uh probably one of the

1962
01:15:25,030 --> 01:15:22,400
most famous ones was told by john

1963
01:15:26,470 --> 01:15:25,040
keeling the mothman prophecies um

1964
01:15:29,590 --> 01:15:26,480
involving a

1965
01:15:31,350 --> 01:15:29,600
local journalist uh mary hire this weird

1966
01:15:33,510 --> 01:15:31,360
looking man in black came into her

1967
01:15:35,430 --> 01:15:33,520
office late at night kept staring at

1968
01:15:36,950 --> 01:15:35,440
this ballpoint pen on the table and

1969
01:15:39,430 --> 01:15:36,960
suddenly grabbed it

1970
01:15:41,030 --> 01:15:39,440
and like ran out into the night cackling

1971
01:15:43,030 --> 01:15:41,040
with this weird

1972
01:15:44,870 --> 01:15:43,040
this weird cackle and there are a lot of

1973
01:15:47,030 --> 01:15:44,880
cases like that where

1974
01:15:49,510 --> 01:15:47,040
the the mib and the wip have been in

1975
01:15:50,630 --> 01:15:49,520
people's homes and they'll stare at some

1976
01:15:52,950 --> 01:15:50,640
object

1977
01:15:55,189 --> 01:15:52,960
and they'll grab it before they leave or

1978
01:15:57,430 --> 01:15:55,199
the person goes out the room and when

1979
01:15:59,669 --> 01:15:57,440
they come back you know i was like they

1980
01:16:00,550 --> 01:15:59,679
realize something's missing you know and

1981
01:16:02,870 --> 01:16:00,560
um

1982
01:16:03,910 --> 01:16:02,880
now that's sort of not definitive tricks

1983
01:16:05,830 --> 01:16:03,920
to

1984
01:16:07,830 --> 01:16:05,840
approach but it is the approach of

1985
01:16:11,189 --> 01:16:07,840
something that is playing with the

1986
01:16:13,990 --> 01:16:11,199
person's mind you know it's just an odd

1987
01:16:15,510 --> 01:16:14,000
thing that the person remembers that oh

1988
01:16:18,550 --> 01:16:15,520
yeah you know he stole

1989
01:16:21,430 --> 01:16:18,560
a spoon off you know a copper sauce or

1990
01:16:24,070 --> 01:16:21,440
whatever or you know he stole this or

1991
01:16:26,390 --> 01:16:24,080
stole that and you can find that in a

1992
01:16:28,149 --> 01:16:26,400
lot of cases and um

1993
01:16:30,950 --> 01:16:28,159
and also you know they

1994
01:16:34,470 --> 01:16:30,960
they they give names that you know sort

1995
01:16:36,229 --> 01:16:34,480
of tie in with sort of ancient name

1996
01:16:37,350 --> 01:16:36,239
we'll find out about those names and

1997
01:16:39,910 --> 01:16:37,360
more with

1998
01:16:48,630 --> 01:16:39,920
nick gene and chris you're in the

1999
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:53,350
thank you for listening to gcn

2000
01:16:57,990 --> 01:16:54,189
visit

2001
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looking for that edge during those

2002
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intimate moments we see many ads for

2003
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2082
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already tired of being cold how would

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you like to never be cold again this is

2085
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dale with fortress clothing and i'm here

2086
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to tell you you will never be cold again

2087
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2088
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freezing your butt off elk hunting

2089
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sitting in a tree stand deer hunting

2090
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winter camping fishing ice fishing no

2091
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longer fear the cold if you snowmobile

2092
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ski snowboard get fortress

2093
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sledding with the kids shoveling the

2094
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walks shopping or if you or your spouse

2095
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get cold feet at home get fortress if

2096
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you're stuck outside working in the cold

2097
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or find yourself in an emergency

2098
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2099
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2100
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the answer so quit complaining and go to

2101
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2102
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2103
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2104
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2105
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[Music]

2106
01:21:06,790 --> 01:21:04,400
this is leslie kane and i'm with the

2107
01:21:10,709 --> 01:21:06,800
coalition for freedom of information and

2108
01:21:15,030 --> 01:21:11,590
okay

2109
01:21:16,950 --> 01:21:15,040
nick used the term ancient names in our

2110
01:21:18,229 --> 01:21:16,960
previous segment with gene and chris

2111
01:21:21,750 --> 01:21:18,239
talking about

2112
01:21:24,870 --> 01:21:21,760
women in black men and black strange

2113
01:21:26,790 --> 01:21:24,880
beings tell us more ancient names

2114
01:21:29,350 --> 01:21:26,800
well yeah i mean there was i've got a

2115
01:21:31,830 --> 01:21:29,360
couple of uh cases where you know the

2116
01:21:33,910 --> 01:21:31,840
men in black used um sort of

2117
01:21:36,229 --> 01:21:33,920
the names of sort of straight out of

2118
01:21:38,790 --> 01:21:36,239
ancient mythology like uh like mr

2119
01:21:41,430 --> 01:21:38,800
neptune and mr zeus those are two that

2120
01:21:44,390 --> 01:21:41,440
i've got on file with the women in black

2121
01:21:47,110 --> 01:21:44,400
i've got one that use the name athena

2122
01:21:49,350 --> 01:21:47,120
uh you know and there's a lot of cases

2123
01:21:52,070 --> 01:21:49,360
like that where it's almost like they're

2124
01:21:53,270 --> 01:21:52,080
leaving a subtle clue for the person to

2125
01:21:55,350 --> 01:21:53,280
look into

2126
01:21:56,390 --> 01:21:55,360
who they actually were at a greater

2127
01:21:58,790 --> 01:21:56,400
level

2128
01:21:59,669 --> 01:21:58,800
because they go out of their way to be

2129
01:22:01,030 --> 01:21:59,679
so

2130
01:22:03,430 --> 01:22:01,040
strange

2131
01:22:05,110 --> 01:22:03,440
you know so it's almost like it's a in

2132
01:22:07,590 --> 01:22:05,120
some respects it's like a test on the

2133
01:22:08,470 --> 01:22:07,600
person to see what their reaction would

2134
01:22:12,310 --> 01:22:08,480
be

2135
01:22:13,590 --> 01:22:12,320
as much as it is about terrifying them

2136
01:22:15,110 --> 01:22:13,600
and

2137
01:22:17,030 --> 01:22:15,120
you know all of this sort of goes

2138
01:22:19,669 --> 01:22:17,040
completely against the grain of the idea

2139
01:22:22,070 --> 01:22:19,679
of them you know the fbi flashing

2140
01:22:23,350 --> 01:22:22,080
id cards or whatever i'll tell you one

2141
01:22:26,310 --> 01:22:23,360
of the weirdest

2142
01:22:28,629 --> 01:22:26,320
aspects of of this entire mystery is

2143
01:22:30,149 --> 01:22:28,639
that i've got four cases on fire which

2144
01:22:31,750 --> 01:22:30,159
four might not sound a lot but when i

2145
01:22:34,310 --> 01:22:31,760
tell you what the connection is you know

2146
01:22:35,830 --> 01:22:34,320
it's actually quite significant i've got

2147
01:22:36,709 --> 01:22:35,840
four cases

2148
01:22:39,830 --> 01:22:36,719
where

2149
01:22:41,990 --> 01:22:39,840
people encountered men in black

2150
01:22:43,590 --> 01:22:42,000
or women in black

2151
01:22:45,750 --> 01:22:43,600
either watching

2152
01:22:48,310 --> 01:22:45,760
or listening to the soundtrack to

2153
01:22:50,390 --> 01:22:48,320
rosemary's baby i've got actually two

2154
01:22:53,189 --> 01:22:50,400
who watched the movie one that listened

2155
01:22:56,070 --> 01:22:53,199
to the soundtrack and linda godfrey a

2156
01:22:57,910 --> 01:22:56,080
friend of mine she's got one concerning

2157
01:22:58,790 --> 01:22:57,920
a guy who read a book

2158
01:23:05,350 --> 01:22:58,800
on

2159
01:23:07,189 --> 01:23:05,360
know these things then manifested after

2160
01:23:09,910 --> 01:23:07,199
that either watched the movie read the

2161
01:23:11,830 --> 01:23:09,920
book or listened to the soundtrack

2162
01:23:13,990 --> 01:23:11,840
one of the guys who had probably the

2163
01:23:16,709 --> 01:23:14,000
creepiest experience of all is a guy

2164
01:23:19,030 --> 01:23:16,719
named peter beckman peter's um

2165
01:23:22,229 --> 01:23:19,040
an actor and a voice over artist if you

2166
01:23:25,030 --> 01:23:22,239
look up peter beckman b c k m a n plus

2167
01:23:27,510 --> 01:23:25,040
voice over artist you'll find uh because

2168
01:23:29,350 --> 01:23:27,520
i interviewed him for my previous men in

2169
01:23:31,830 --> 01:23:29,360
black book he had a really weird

2170
01:23:32,790 --> 01:23:31,840
experience in the late 60s with a friend

2171
01:23:34,629 --> 01:23:32,800
of his

2172
01:23:37,430 --> 01:23:34,639
when they were listening to the

2173
01:23:39,669 --> 01:23:37,440
soundtrack and then suddenly you know

2174
01:23:41,510 --> 01:23:39,679
the entire atmosphere in the room

2175
01:23:42,950 --> 01:23:41,520
shifted and there was this sudden knock

2176
01:23:44,390 --> 01:23:42,960
on the door and there were these two

2177
01:23:48,229 --> 01:23:44,400
really weird

2178
01:23:49,990 --> 01:23:48,239
again skinny pale mib there and and for

2179
01:23:51,270 --> 01:23:50,000
peter and his friend it was as if they'd

2180
01:23:53,830 --> 01:23:51,280
been almost

2181
01:23:55,270 --> 01:23:53,840
sort of mind controlled in some way and

2182
01:23:56,790 --> 01:23:55,280
it was very you know so those

2183
01:23:58,870 --> 01:23:56,800
experiences are really weird you know

2184
01:24:00,950 --> 01:23:58,880
when they turn up after people have been

2185
01:24:05,270 --> 01:24:00,960
watching specific movies and things like

2186
01:24:07,110 --> 01:24:05,280
that does the fact of reading

2187
01:24:09,590 --> 01:24:07,120
certain types of books or watching

2188
01:24:11,669 --> 01:24:09,600
movies or whatever does that seem to

2189
01:24:13,669 --> 01:24:11,679
attract any of this

2190
01:24:16,149 --> 01:24:13,679
well yeah i mean there are a lot of

2191
01:24:19,590 --> 01:24:16,159
cases where um and particularly in

2192
01:24:21,510 --> 01:24:19,600
relation to the women in black where

2193
01:24:23,590 --> 01:24:21,520
somebody was really heavily involved in

2194
01:24:25,830 --> 01:24:23,600
the occult or the you follow the ufo

2195
01:24:27,350 --> 01:24:25,840
subject but actually weren't part of the

2196
01:24:29,110 --> 01:24:27,360
scene in other words you know they did a

2197
01:24:30,709 --> 01:24:29,120
lot of work privately

2198
01:24:32,070 --> 01:24:30,719
and didn't write for magazines or

2199
01:24:34,390 --> 01:24:32,080
journals you know didn't go on the

2200
01:24:36,870 --> 01:24:34,400
internet and you know form

2201
01:24:38,629 --> 01:24:36,880
chat groups or whatever you know didn't

2202
01:24:41,270 --> 01:24:38,639
speak at conferences

2203
01:24:43,270 --> 01:24:41,280
but the you know the the women in black

2204
01:24:45,830 --> 01:24:43,280
knew about it uh or if they that one

2205
01:24:47,350 --> 01:24:45,840
sort of pet project um

2206
01:24:50,470 --> 01:24:47,360
for example in the book i talk about a

2207
01:24:53,430 --> 01:24:50,480
really weird non-ufo case involving a

2208
01:24:56,550 --> 01:24:53,440
guy who was trying to find the the sort

2209
01:24:58,709 --> 01:24:56,560
of last resting place of the legendary

2210
01:25:01,189 --> 01:24:58,719
king arthur in england

2211
01:25:02,550 --> 01:25:01,199
and he told me how he got this really

2212
01:25:04,950 --> 01:25:02,560
really weird

2213
01:25:08,070 --> 01:25:04,960
visit from this equally weird woman in

2214
01:25:10,709 --> 01:25:08,080
black this was back in 2000

2215
01:25:12,870 --> 01:25:10,719
who warned him to stay away from king

2216
01:25:13,590 --> 01:25:12,880
arthur-based research and she was just

2217
01:25:15,110 --> 01:25:13,600
like

2218
01:25:16,550 --> 01:25:15,120
all these other women in black sort of

2219
01:25:19,750 --> 01:25:16,560
pale

2220
01:25:22,070 --> 01:25:19,760
looked quite attractive but there was

2221
01:25:24,830 --> 01:25:22,080
just something about her that you know

2222
01:25:27,110 --> 01:25:24,840
said the alarm bells ringing

2223
01:25:28,709 --> 01:25:27,120
um you know so

2224
01:25:31,030 --> 01:25:28,719
but he hadn't you know he wasn't

2225
01:25:33,110 --> 01:25:31,040
somebody who even in that field talked

2226
01:25:34,310 --> 01:25:33,120
about he was just it was his private

2227
01:25:36,870 --> 01:25:34,320
passion

2228
01:25:39,830 --> 01:25:36,880
so um you know we do have this sort of

2229
01:25:40,870 --> 01:25:39,840
anomaly where we don't really know how

2230
01:25:43,030 --> 01:25:40,880
or why

2231
01:25:45,110 --> 01:25:43,040
they're able to suddenly just pick up on

2232
01:25:46,470 --> 01:25:45,120
the radar of someone who's doing this or

2233
01:25:49,189 --> 01:25:46,480
doing that

2234
01:25:51,590 --> 01:25:49,199
are there ever cases where the woman in

2235
01:25:53,669 --> 01:25:51,600
black or the man in black just seem to

2236
01:25:57,430 --> 01:25:53,679
be normal humans

2237
01:25:59,430 --> 01:25:57,440
they always seem to be one step beyond

2238
01:26:02,070 --> 01:25:59,440
well there are a few and this is where

2239
01:26:03,030 --> 01:26:02,080
the subject gets a little bit confusing

2240
01:26:05,510 --> 01:26:03,040
because

2241
01:26:07,510 --> 01:26:05,520
if you read a few reports and granted it

2242
01:26:08,790 --> 01:26:07,520
is a few

2243
01:26:11,430 --> 01:26:08,800
there are actually a few of them which

2244
01:26:13,910 --> 01:26:11,440
which we can trace back to government

2245
01:26:16,310 --> 01:26:13,920
agencies where somebody turned up in a

2246
01:26:19,030 --> 01:26:16,320
black suit a black fedora and warned a

2247
01:26:21,910 --> 01:26:19,040
witness not to talk about a particular

2248
01:26:24,870 --> 01:26:21,920
case um there was a famous one in

2249
01:26:27,430 --> 01:26:24,880
england in the early 60s involving um a

2250
01:26:28,950 --> 01:26:27,440
teenage girl named dan henson who said

2251
01:26:31,110 --> 01:26:28,960
you know she'd seen this strange light

2252
01:26:32,390 --> 01:26:31,120
in the sky late one night a couple of

2253
01:26:34,229 --> 01:26:32,400
nights later

2254
01:26:37,110 --> 01:26:34,239
this guy turned up on the doorstep in a

2255
01:26:39,669 --> 01:26:37,120
black suit um you know black hat black

2256
01:26:41,669 --> 01:26:39,679
tie black car and warned her not to talk

2257
01:26:43,669 --> 01:26:41,679
about what she'd seen and she'd actually

2258
01:26:45,750 --> 01:26:43,679
drawn some like a little picture of this

2259
01:26:47,350 --> 01:26:45,760
thing over the hill behind the house and

2260
01:26:48,550 --> 01:26:47,360
he took it with him and that's something

2261
01:26:51,110 --> 01:26:48,560
the man in black do you know they

2262
01:26:53,110 --> 01:26:51,120
confiscate things but

2263
01:26:55,189 --> 01:26:53,120
what's important about this case is that

2264
01:26:58,070 --> 01:26:55,199
the official file on it actually

2265
01:26:59,830 --> 01:26:58,080
surfaced officially through the british

2266
01:27:01,510 --> 01:26:59,840
government's freedom of information act

2267
01:27:04,390 --> 01:27:01,520
and it identified

2268
01:27:05,990 --> 01:27:04,400
the um the man in question as an

2269
01:27:08,550 --> 01:27:06,000
employee of what's called the provost

2270
01:27:10,550 --> 01:27:08,560
and security services which is the

2271
01:27:13,830 --> 01:27:10,560
uk equivalence of the air force office

2272
01:27:16,070 --> 01:27:13,840
of special investigations the afosi

2273
01:27:19,350 --> 01:27:16,080
so to get to your point i think what has

2274
01:27:21,189 --> 01:27:19,360
happened on a few occasions is that when

2275
01:27:24,390 --> 01:27:21,199
military agencies

2276
01:27:25,910 --> 01:27:24,400
want to silence people to legitimate ufo

2277
01:27:27,510 --> 01:27:25,920
encounters

2278
01:27:29,590 --> 01:27:27,520
they may actually

2279
01:27:32,310 --> 01:27:29,600
mimic the real men in black and the

2280
01:27:35,270 --> 01:27:32,320
women in black they may not know any

2281
01:27:38,070 --> 01:27:35,280
more than we do about what the mib

2282
01:27:41,030 --> 01:27:38,080
really are but they know that if

2283
01:27:41,990 --> 01:27:41,040
necessary they can employ the legend and

2284
01:27:44,149 --> 01:27:42,000
the law

2285
01:27:46,149 --> 01:27:44,159
of the men in black and you know let's

2286
01:27:48,310 --> 01:27:46,159
have their guys go out and dress like

2287
01:27:50,390 --> 01:27:48,320
that and act a little bit strange

2288
01:27:52,470 --> 01:27:50,400
to threaten the person

2289
01:27:54,229 --> 01:27:52,480
and you know if the person speaks about

2290
01:27:55,830 --> 01:27:54,239
it they're going to get laughed at so i

2291
01:27:58,310 --> 01:27:55,840
think that may have happened on a few

2292
01:28:00,550 --> 01:27:58,320
occasions where as i said the government

2293
01:28:02,790 --> 01:28:00,560
probably doesn't have a full

2294
01:28:04,790 --> 01:28:02,800
awareness of what the mib are but it

2295
01:28:07,430 --> 01:28:04,800
doesn't stop them from

2296
01:28:09,510 --> 01:28:07,440
mimicking them when it suits their favor

2297
01:28:12,070 --> 01:28:09,520
you know so admittedly there is this

2298
01:28:14,950 --> 01:28:12,080
sort of gray area where some of them

2299
01:28:17,750 --> 01:28:14,960
could be government people but in a very

2300
01:28:19,030 --> 01:28:17,760
odd fashion so to speak

2301
01:28:20,390 --> 01:28:19,040
go ahead gene

2302
01:28:21,669 --> 01:28:20,400
if you want to say something chris go

2303
01:28:23,510 --> 01:28:21,679
ahead

2304
01:28:26,070 --> 01:28:23,520
yeah i was going to be going to mention

2305
01:28:27,990 --> 01:28:26,080
that um

2306
01:28:30,870 --> 01:28:28,000
one quality

2307
01:28:32,790 --> 01:28:30,880
with descriptions of from witnesses

2308
01:28:34,950 --> 01:28:32,800
that

2309
01:28:37,669 --> 01:28:34,960
seem to be fairly consistent through the

2310
01:28:40,070 --> 01:28:37,679
50s and 60s was a description that they

2311
01:28:42,950 --> 01:28:40,080
appeared oddly sort of oriental looking

2312
01:28:45,590 --> 01:28:42,960
do we still have that um description in

2313
01:28:47,510 --> 01:28:45,600
modern more modern cases

2314
01:28:48,470 --> 01:28:47,520
yeah they're often described as happy

2315
01:28:50,709 --> 01:28:48,480
well

2316
01:28:52,470 --> 01:28:50,719
not as many but there are reports where

2317
01:28:55,510 --> 01:28:52,480
the witnesses have described today that

2318
01:28:58,310 --> 01:28:55,520
their eyes look abnormally large

2319
01:29:00,709 --> 01:28:58,320
not sort of you know eye-popping

2320
01:29:02,550 --> 01:29:00,719
nobody intended i popping large but

2321
01:29:04,149 --> 01:29:02,560
larger than they should be and wider

2322
01:29:06,709 --> 01:29:04,159
spread

2323
01:29:08,709 --> 01:29:06,719
um and some of the witnesses felt that's

2324
01:29:10,790 --> 01:29:08,719
why grantee was just their opinions but

2325
01:29:12,470 --> 01:29:10,800
they're probably right i think why they

2326
01:29:14,070 --> 01:29:12,480
wore these wrap around sunglasses

2327
01:29:16,070 --> 01:29:14,080
because it was only when

2328
01:29:17,830 --> 01:29:16,080
the the manning black or the woman in

2329
01:29:19,110 --> 01:29:17,840
black was close to them they could

2330
01:29:20,629 --> 01:29:19,120
actually see

2331
01:29:22,870 --> 01:29:20,639
you know just managed to make out

2332
01:29:24,709 --> 01:29:22,880
through the sunglasses how big the eyes

2333
01:29:27,189 --> 01:29:24,719
really were

2334
01:29:30,070 --> 01:29:27,199
so i think you know this camouflage

2335
01:29:32,229 --> 01:29:30,080
angle comes into play but yes this we

2336
01:29:34,390 --> 01:29:32,239
still do get reports today of sort of

2337
01:29:36,149 --> 01:29:34,400
anomalies with the eyes but it's they

2338
01:29:38,870 --> 01:29:36,159
tend to be sort of

2339
01:29:40,149 --> 01:29:38,880
larger eyes wider spaced eyes

2340
01:29:43,030 --> 01:29:40,159
um

2341
01:29:44,470 --> 01:29:43,040
and again you know that the face

2342
01:29:47,110 --> 01:29:44,480
very often in the past the skin was

2343
01:29:48,950 --> 01:29:47,120
described as olive color today it's far

2344
01:29:49,910 --> 01:29:48,960
more described as sort of very pale

2345
01:29:51,510 --> 01:29:49,920
almost

2346
01:29:53,830 --> 01:29:51,520
white white so when i say white i mean

2347
01:29:55,430 --> 01:29:53,840
like a sheet of paper white

2348
01:29:56,470 --> 01:29:55,440
um

2349
01:29:58,870 --> 01:29:56,480
and

2350
01:30:02,229 --> 01:29:58,880
you know again if you sort of remove the

2351
01:30:04,709 --> 01:30:02,239
wig you remove the sunglasses you remove

2352
01:30:07,270 --> 01:30:04,719
the turned up colors and you see them in

2353
01:30:08,629 --> 01:30:07,280
full day like rather in the shadows

2354
01:30:13,270 --> 01:30:08,639
they might look

2355
01:30:15,350 --> 01:30:13,280
extremely non-human you know so um

2356
01:30:17,430 --> 01:30:15,360
some aspects of it in that respect have

2357
01:30:19,430 --> 01:30:17,440
changed over the years but other ones

2358
01:30:20,870 --> 01:30:19,440
you know he's you know like we discussed

2359
01:30:22,950 --> 01:30:20,880
sort of

2360
01:30:25,430 --> 01:30:22,960
an archetypal man in black in the 50s

2361
01:30:27,590 --> 01:30:25,440
he's still very much like the archetypal

2362
01:30:29,910 --> 01:30:27,600
man in black today as well

2363
01:30:31,270 --> 01:30:29,920
we've got more to come on men and black

2364
01:30:33,110 --> 01:30:31,280
women in black

2365
01:30:35,910 --> 01:30:33,120
but not things in black or maybe they

2366
01:30:40,870 --> 01:30:35,920
are with jean chris and nick you're in

2367
01:30:40,880 --> 01:30:49,189
[Music]

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2470
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2471
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2472
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your retirement accounts even 401k learn

2473
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[Music]

2475
01:35:07,990 --> 01:35:06,390
this is micah hanks at the grayling

2476
01:35:10,310 --> 01:35:08,000
report and you're listening to the

2477
01:35:13,520 --> 01:35:10,320
paracast the gold standard of paranormal

2478
01:35:21,510 --> 01:35:19,350
[Music]

2479
01:35:23,350 --> 01:35:21,520
before we go on let's mention that we

2480
01:35:26,310 --> 01:35:23,360
have a second radio show

2481
01:35:28,390 --> 01:35:26,320
that we call after the power cast

2482
01:35:30,310 --> 01:35:28,400
it's available exclusively to

2483
01:35:31,270 --> 01:35:30,320
those who subscribe to the powercast

2484
01:35:33,470 --> 01:35:31,280
plus

2485
01:35:34,790 --> 01:35:33,480
to learn more you go to

2486
01:35:37,910 --> 01:35:34,800
plus.thepowercast.com that's

2487
01:35:41,830 --> 01:35:39,990
the benefits include the commercial free

2488
01:35:42,950 --> 01:35:41,840
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2489
01:35:45,870 --> 01:35:42,960
audio

2490
01:35:48,790 --> 01:35:45,880
videos more goodies

2491
01:35:50,310 --> 01:35:48,800
plus.powercast.com we're talking to nick

2492
01:35:53,030 --> 01:35:50,320
redfearn

2493
01:35:54,550 --> 01:35:53,040
about men in black women in black and

2494
01:35:57,270 --> 01:35:54,560
all that stuff

2495
01:35:59,750 --> 01:35:57,280
nick following these

2496
01:36:01,510 --> 01:35:59,760
individuals beings creatures over the

2497
01:36:03,430 --> 01:36:01,520
years

2498
01:36:05,750 --> 01:36:03,440
has anything happened to you that's

2499
01:36:07,910 --> 01:36:05,760
weird as a result

2500
01:36:10,070 --> 01:36:07,920
well that's one of the questions i i

2501
01:36:12,310 --> 01:36:10,080
always get asked now i've never had that

2502
01:36:14,950 --> 01:36:12,320
sort of you know classic late night

2503
01:36:17,990 --> 01:36:14,960
knock on the door or anything like that

2504
01:36:20,310 --> 01:36:18,000
um but what i have had is like a few

2505
01:36:22,550 --> 01:36:20,320
really weird um

2506
01:36:24,470 --> 01:36:22,560
synchronicities concerning the men in

2507
01:36:26,470 --> 01:36:24,480
black i'll give you an example

2508
01:36:27,669 --> 01:36:26,480
when i was putting the final touches to

2509
01:36:29,189 --> 01:36:27,679
my

2510
01:36:31,430 --> 01:36:29,199
last book on the men in black which is

2511
01:36:34,310 --> 01:36:31,440
just called men in black it came out in

2512
01:36:36,709 --> 01:36:34,320
um late 2015 confirmed by august

2513
01:36:38,950 --> 01:36:36,719
september 2015

2514
01:36:41,750 --> 01:36:38,960
and i was putting the final touches to

2515
01:36:43,189 --> 01:36:41,760
it and i think it was june thereabouts

2516
01:36:45,669 --> 01:36:43,199
and um

2517
01:36:47,430 --> 01:36:45,679
i just literally finished the word

2518
01:36:49,590 --> 01:36:47,440
document closed it down and was getting

2519
01:36:52,870 --> 01:36:49,600
ready to send it to my agent and

2520
01:36:54,950 --> 01:36:52,880
publisher lisa hagan and i had a bang in

2521
01:36:57,109 --> 01:36:54,960
my apartment now it's not a big

2522
01:36:59,510 --> 01:36:57,119
apartment you know it's only 400 square

2523
01:37:01,750 --> 01:36:59,520
feet so it couldn't have come from very

2524
01:37:04,390 --> 01:37:01,760
far away so i looked in the living room

2525
01:37:07,030 --> 01:37:04,400
nothing there and went into the bedroom

2526
01:37:08,550 --> 01:37:07,040
and what had happened was that um

2527
01:37:10,149 --> 01:37:08,560
one of the pictures i got on the wall

2528
01:37:12,550 --> 01:37:10,159
had fallen off you know i've got sort of

2529
01:37:14,550 --> 01:37:12,560
around the room about 10 different

2530
01:37:18,470 --> 01:37:14,560
pictures you know one of like bigfoot

2531
01:37:20,310 --> 01:37:18,480
the ones nessie etc etc and um the one

2532
01:37:23,270 --> 01:37:20,320
that had fallen off the wall it had

2533
01:37:25,350 --> 01:37:23,280
fallen from about six feet up and the

2534
01:37:26,709 --> 01:37:25,360
wooden frame had broken and the glass

2535
01:37:29,270 --> 01:37:26,719
had shattered

2536
01:37:31,030 --> 01:37:29,280
and what it actually was it was one of

2537
01:37:33,750 --> 01:37:31,040
the few that wasn't a painting what it

2538
01:37:36,149 --> 01:37:33,760
was it was a framed letter or photocopy

2539
01:37:37,669 --> 01:37:36,159
of a letter written by albert bender the

2540
01:37:40,709 --> 01:37:37,679
guy who kicked off the men in black

2541
01:37:42,310 --> 01:37:40,719
mystery back in the early 50s so in

2542
01:37:44,790 --> 01:37:42,320
other words you know i'd finish the men

2543
01:37:47,109 --> 01:37:44,800
in black book close the program down

2544
01:37:49,030 --> 01:37:47,119
ready to send it and then at that very

2545
01:37:50,629 --> 01:37:49,040
when i say at that very moment i do mean

2546
01:37:53,030 --> 01:37:50,639
like within seconds

2547
01:37:55,350 --> 01:37:53,040
this framed letter of albert bender

2548
01:37:57,590 --> 01:37:55,360
warning people about the men in black

2549
01:38:00,229 --> 01:37:57,600
fell off the wall and shattered now that

2550
01:38:02,709 --> 01:38:00,239
that's a true story and that was they've

2551
01:38:04,390 --> 01:38:02,719
been several weird things like that have

2552
01:38:07,430 --> 01:38:04,400
have happened to me

2553
01:38:09,669 --> 01:38:07,440
i had a really weird spate i'm by weird

2554
01:38:12,470 --> 01:38:09,679
and at space i mean like

2555
01:38:14,390 --> 01:38:12,480
non-stop for like three days where when

2556
01:38:16,390 --> 01:38:14,400
i was doing anything in relation to the

2557
01:38:19,109 --> 01:38:16,400
men in black i would have one of these

2558
01:38:22,070 --> 01:38:19,119
sort of weird 11 11 moments where

2559
01:38:24,229 --> 01:38:22,080
everywhere i go it's 11 11 which you

2560
01:38:26,070 --> 01:38:24,239
know the 11 11 phenomenon is you know

2561
01:38:28,310 --> 01:38:26,080
sort of one of the more weirder modern

2562
01:38:29,750 --> 01:38:28,320
day mysteries so you know a lot of

2563
01:38:31,750 --> 01:38:29,760
strange things

2564
01:38:35,109 --> 01:38:31,760
like that have happened to me but they

2565
01:38:37,510 --> 01:38:35,119
haven't gotten to you and said nick

2566
01:38:38,950 --> 01:38:37,520
don't do this anymore has anyone ever

2567
01:38:41,430 --> 01:38:38,960
said that to you

2568
01:38:44,070 --> 01:38:41,440
no no no one's ever said that to me the

2569
01:38:46,149 --> 01:38:44,080
only time i've got people said don't

2570
01:38:48,310 --> 01:38:46,159
talk about this is is when from their

2571
01:38:50,550 --> 01:38:48,320
perspective they're worried about not

2572
01:38:52,709 --> 01:38:50,560
being quoted or you know or being quoted

2573
01:38:55,109 --> 01:38:52,719
i should say but no one's ever come to

2574
01:38:57,030 --> 01:38:55,119
me and said don't write about this don't

2575
01:38:59,189 --> 01:38:57,040
talk about that and i think one of the

2576
01:39:01,910 --> 01:38:59,199
main reasons is because

2577
01:39:03,910 --> 01:39:01,920
the people who primarily not always

2578
01:39:05,830 --> 01:39:03,920
people who primarily visited and

2579
01:39:07,910 --> 01:39:05,840
threatened witnesses

2580
01:39:09,750 --> 01:39:07,920
not investigators

2581
01:39:11,350 --> 01:39:09,760
now there have been you know

2582
01:39:13,109 --> 01:39:11,360
more than a few people have been visited

2583
01:39:14,149 --> 01:39:13,119
by the many black and women in black who

2584
01:39:16,149 --> 01:39:14,159
are

2585
01:39:18,629 --> 01:39:16,159
investigators of the phenomenon but for

2586
01:39:20,790 --> 01:39:18,639
the most part they are people who've had

2587
01:39:23,669 --> 01:39:20,800
the encounter themselves

2588
01:39:25,030 --> 01:39:23,679
so you know i've not seen the ufo

2589
01:39:27,109 --> 01:39:25,040
hovering over

2590
01:39:29,270 --> 01:39:27,119
you know my apartment i've not had an

2591
01:39:31,350 --> 01:39:29,280
abduction experience i'm someone who's

2592
01:39:33,189 --> 01:39:31,360
investigated these things so that may

2593
01:39:34,629 --> 01:39:33,199
well account for why

2594
01:39:37,750 --> 01:39:34,639
i'm done the knock on the door because

2595
01:39:39,750 --> 01:39:37,760
i'm not perceived as a threat where the

2596
01:39:42,550 --> 01:39:39,760
witnesses for some odd reason are sort

2597
01:39:44,790 --> 01:39:42,560
of perceived as threats i've only had a

2598
01:39:47,590 --> 01:39:44,800
couple but uh one of them was an mib but

2599
01:39:49,109 --> 01:39:47,600
it was a man in beige

2600
01:39:52,390 --> 01:39:49,119
oh well i've actually got a few of those

2601
01:39:54,390 --> 01:39:52,400
in the most recent book as well

2602
01:39:57,350 --> 01:39:54,400
oh do tell

2603
01:40:00,149 --> 01:39:57,360
a beige safari suit oh i've mentioned on

2604
01:40:02,550 --> 01:40:00,159
the show uh quite a number of times when

2605
01:40:03,510 --> 01:40:02,560
i was looking into the underground base

2606
01:40:07,350 --> 01:40:03,520
uh

2607
01:40:09,910 --> 01:40:07,360
along the border of colorado and new

2608
01:40:12,229 --> 01:40:09,920
mexico and i was visited by

2609
01:40:15,189 --> 01:40:12,239
a director from the institute of social

2610
01:40:17,350 --> 01:40:15,990
who

2611
01:40:19,030 --> 01:40:17,360
suggested that

2612
01:40:21,109 --> 01:40:19,040
maybe there were some things i was

2613
01:40:22,709 --> 01:40:21,119
getting into that

2614
01:40:24,390 --> 01:40:22,719
most people don't have a need to know

2615
01:40:26,310 --> 01:40:24,400
and i should probably start

2616
01:40:27,990 --> 01:40:26,320
he said you should question

2617
01:40:30,390 --> 01:40:28,000
if if i were you i would question your

2618
01:40:31,590 --> 01:40:30,400
motivations

2619
01:40:35,750 --> 01:40:31,600
and

2620
01:40:38,390 --> 01:40:35,760
mimicking my

2621
01:40:39,430 --> 01:40:38,400
body language and it was very strange

2622
01:40:40,629 --> 01:40:39,440
creepy

2623
01:40:42,709 --> 01:40:40,639
yeah

2624
01:40:44,870 --> 01:40:42,719
i can't remember one weird thing that

2625
01:40:46,470 --> 01:40:44,880
did happen to me and this was back in

2626
01:40:47,270 --> 01:40:46,480
2001

2627
01:40:49,109 --> 01:40:47,280
i was

2628
01:40:50,390 --> 01:40:49,119
in the process of you know moving to the

2629
01:40:53,189 --> 01:40:50,400
u.s to live

2630
01:40:56,470 --> 01:40:53,199
and i was at heathrow airport i was in

2631
01:40:57,830 --> 01:40:56,480
the line to check my bag in granted the

2632
01:40:59,430 --> 01:40:57,840
bag was quite heavy you know it was like

2633
01:41:00,870 --> 01:40:59,440
a one that had to be checked all the way

2634
01:41:02,790 --> 01:41:00,880
through and i think you remember right

2635
01:41:05,109 --> 01:41:02,800
it was overweight and i had to pay some

2636
01:41:07,590 --> 01:41:05,119
extra anyway i was taking so much over

2637
01:41:09,270 --> 01:41:07,600
with me back and forth back and forth

2638
01:41:11,030 --> 01:41:09,280
and um

2639
01:41:12,629 --> 01:41:11,040
so i was in line and this there was this

2640
01:41:15,750 --> 01:41:12,639
old guy sort of tapped me on the

2641
01:41:18,629 --> 01:41:15,760
shoulder and um and he kind of looked

2642
01:41:20,629 --> 01:41:18,639
like you know sort of one of the

2643
01:41:22,950 --> 01:41:20,639
elderly you guys if you remember the

2644
01:41:25,270 --> 01:41:22,960
x-files you know there was like that

2645
01:41:27,510 --> 01:41:25,280
mj-12 group and they were all made up of

2646
01:41:29,750 --> 01:41:27,520
like old guys you know from

2647
01:41:31,590 --> 01:41:29,760
big reputations and backgrounds and from

2648
01:41:33,030 --> 01:41:31,600
powerful families all that kind of thing

2649
01:41:35,430 --> 01:41:33,040
you know and they're all in their suits

2650
01:41:37,430 --> 01:41:35,440
in these sort of uh dark rooms and

2651
01:41:39,430 --> 01:41:37,440
whatever well that's all they have left

2652
01:41:41,510 --> 01:41:39,440
of their lives is just to get together

2653
01:41:43,510 --> 01:41:41,520
these 12 people

2654
01:41:45,830 --> 01:41:43,520
that's it they have no family they just

2655
01:41:47,990 --> 01:41:45,840
get together every few years and and

2656
01:41:50,070 --> 01:41:48,000
plot havoc exactly

2657
01:41:51,830 --> 01:41:50,080
but anyway what the the guy he tapped me

2658
01:41:54,149 --> 01:41:51,840
on the shoulder and said do you want to

2659
01:41:55,750 --> 01:41:54,159
put your case on what he got he

2660
01:41:57,030 --> 01:41:55,760
basically got like a little thing on

2661
01:41:59,910 --> 01:41:57,040
wheels you know where you could put your

2662
01:42:01,830 --> 01:41:59,920
case on there push it along much easier

2663
01:42:03,590 --> 01:42:01,840
and i said okay thanks and he said where

2664
01:42:05,270 --> 01:42:03,600
are you going i said i'm

2665
01:42:08,070 --> 01:42:05,280
moving to the us to live and he said

2666
01:42:09,910 --> 01:42:08,080
whereabouts i said to texas and he said

2667
01:42:12,070 --> 01:42:09,920
oh yeah texas that's the home of the

2668
01:42:14,310 --> 01:42:12,080
kennedy assassination and then he said

2669
01:42:16,070 --> 01:42:14,320
oh you know you shouldn't believe all

2670
01:42:17,990 --> 01:42:16,080
those conspiracy theories about things

2671
01:42:20,470 --> 01:42:18,000
like that and then he actually turned

2672
01:42:23,270 --> 01:42:20,480
around and got out the line and vanished

2673
01:42:24,709 --> 01:42:23,280
into the heathrow crowd that was kind of

2674
01:42:27,030 --> 01:42:24,719
really weird now there was nothing

2675
01:42:29,750 --> 01:42:27,040
paranormal about him but i did get a

2676
01:42:31,750 --> 01:42:29,760
feeling that he'd been sent out kind of

2677
01:42:33,030 --> 01:42:31,760
thing and he didn't feel like paranoia

2678
01:42:35,350 --> 01:42:33,040
he actually felt

2679
01:42:37,430 --> 01:42:35,360
that's exactly what it was you know

2680
01:42:39,430 --> 01:42:37,440
do you think you were targeted or was it

2681
01:42:42,149 --> 01:42:39,440
just one of those things

2682
01:42:45,030 --> 01:42:42,159
um well i i actually did i do think that

2683
01:42:47,430 --> 01:42:45,040
something was going on because um a lot

2684
01:42:49,830 --> 01:42:47,440
of strange things went on around that

2685
01:42:50,950 --> 01:42:49,840
time as well that we didn't amount to

2686
01:42:54,870 --> 01:42:50,960
much on their own but were kind of

2687
01:42:56,950 --> 01:42:54,880
similar to that but again i think

2688
01:42:59,430 --> 01:42:56,960
i think most people in the ufo subject

2689
01:43:01,669 --> 01:42:59,440
to a degree are watched because

2690
01:43:04,070 --> 01:43:01,679
not necessarily because you're

2691
01:43:05,109 --> 01:43:04,080
investigating ufos but because there's

2692
01:43:07,189 --> 01:43:05,119
this

2693
01:43:08,790 --> 01:43:07,199
tendency to believe that if you

2694
01:43:10,229 --> 01:43:08,800
investigate ufos you're probably a

2695
01:43:12,550 --> 01:43:10,239
conspiracy theorist and if you're a

2696
01:43:14,590 --> 01:43:12,560
conspiracy theorist you probably believe

2697
01:43:17,189 --> 01:43:14,600
in some political

2698
01:43:19,350 --> 01:43:17,199
conspiracies and and then you're seen as

2699
01:43:22,229 --> 01:43:19,360
a troublemaker you know so you go from

2700
01:43:24,229 --> 01:43:22,239
being a ufologist to a troublemaker via

2701
01:43:25,510 --> 01:43:24,239
all these different steps and i think

2702
01:43:28,709 --> 01:43:25,520
that's why a lot of people in the

2703
01:43:29,910 --> 01:43:28,719
subject are watched because they are per

2704
01:43:31,750 --> 01:43:29,920
se you know

2705
01:43:34,390 --> 01:43:31,760
i think they kind of view ufologists the

2706
01:43:36,950 --> 01:43:34,400
same way as they do as somebody who

2707
01:43:38,709 --> 01:43:36,960
demonstrates for animal rights or

2708
01:43:40,870 --> 01:43:38,719
somebody who demonstrates when an old

2709
01:43:43,750 --> 01:43:40,880
tree is about to be chopped down you

2710
01:43:45,030 --> 01:43:43,760
know they view us as as tiresome

2711
01:43:47,030 --> 01:43:45,040
meddlers

2712
01:43:49,590 --> 01:43:47,040
and so i think that's why we're all

2713
01:43:51,270 --> 01:43:49,600
watched to some degree and i think

2714
01:43:53,750 --> 01:43:51,280
probably you know just a

2715
01:43:55,990 --> 01:43:53,760
a routine little file probably is opened

2716
01:43:58,149 --> 01:43:56,000
on a lot of people you know that's not

2717
01:44:00,390 --> 01:43:58,159
paranoia i mean for example through the

2718
01:44:03,430 --> 01:44:00,400
freedom information act george van

2719
01:44:04,870 --> 01:44:03,440
tassel's fbi file a service that's 300

2720
01:44:06,870 --> 01:44:04,880
pages plus

2721
01:44:10,550 --> 01:44:06,880
you know adamski's is more than a

2722
01:44:12,950 --> 01:44:10,560
hundred alba benders is like 75

2723
01:44:15,669 --> 01:44:12,960
george hunt williamson's is about 45

2724
01:44:18,149 --> 01:44:15,679
pages you know so all those guys back

2725
01:44:21,430 --> 01:44:18,159
then did have files on them we probably

2726
01:44:23,990 --> 01:44:21,440
do today but again i don't think it's

2727
01:44:26,229 --> 01:44:24,000
because they think john smith or bill

2728
01:44:27,590 --> 01:44:26,239
jones or whoever has the answers

2729
01:44:30,790 --> 01:44:27,600
it's because

2730
01:44:33,189 --> 01:44:30,800
they see you as in in today's world even

2731
01:44:34,390 --> 01:44:33,199
more so than in the cold war they see us

2732
01:44:39,430 --> 01:44:34,400
as

2733
01:44:43,030 --> 01:44:39,440
did you ever look to see whether jim

2734
01:44:46,310 --> 01:44:43,040
mosley or gray barker had fbi files that

2735
01:44:50,870 --> 01:44:47,350
um

2736
01:44:54,390 --> 01:44:50,880
i actually

2737
01:44:56,229 --> 01:44:54,400
haven't but so the problem is if

2738
01:44:58,070 --> 01:44:56,239
if a person's living

2739
01:45:00,629 --> 01:44:58,080
and you want to get their

2740
01:45:02,709 --> 01:45:00,639
um fbi file you have to get written

2741
01:45:03,510 --> 01:45:02,719
permission from that person

2742
01:45:05,750 --> 01:45:03,520
and

2743
01:45:07,830 --> 01:45:05,760
you have to then

2744
01:45:09,910 --> 01:45:07,840
you know go to the fbi with all the

2745
01:45:12,149 --> 01:45:09,920
documentation proving

2746
01:45:14,709 --> 01:45:12,159
that the person has given you permission

2747
01:45:17,430 --> 01:45:14,719
now if the person's dead you have to

2748
01:45:18,709 --> 01:45:17,440
provide an official obituary for the

2749
01:45:20,390 --> 01:45:18,719
person

2750
01:45:22,149 --> 01:45:20,400
let's go into more of that in a moment

2751
01:45:24,629 --> 01:45:22,159
okay this is interesting

2752
01:45:26,870 --> 01:45:24,639
we have nick redfern

2753
01:45:28,470 --> 01:45:26,880
and now we're now going into

2754
01:45:30,229 --> 01:45:28,480
fbi files

2755
01:45:39,109 --> 01:45:30,239
with jean and chris you're in the

2756
01:45:43,550 --> 01:45:42,629
you are listening to gcn

2757
01:45:45,020 --> 01:45:43,560
visit

2758
01:45:47,830 --> 01:45:45,030
gcnlive.com today

2759
01:45:49,910 --> 01:45:47,840
[Music]

2760
01:45:52,229 --> 01:45:49,920
attack of the rockoids has been well

2761
01:45:53,830 --> 01:45:52,239
received by critics and readers alike

2762
01:45:55,189 --> 01:45:53,840
it's a thrill a minute story you'll

2763
01:45:57,109 --> 01:45:55,199
never forget

2764
01:45:59,590 --> 01:45:57,119
a former u.s military intelligence

2765
01:46:02,149 --> 01:45:59,600
officer is haunted by intense dreams

2766
01:46:04,550 --> 01:46:02,159
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

2767
01:46:05,590 --> 01:46:04,560
help after a terrible battle in outer

2768
01:46:07,750 --> 01:46:05,600
space

2769
01:46:09,750 --> 01:46:07,760
but the dreams turn out to be true and

2770
01:46:12,470 --> 01:46:09,760
thrust him into a telepathic love affair

2771
01:46:14,870 --> 01:46:12,480
with a woman whose far away planet is

2772
01:46:17,350 --> 01:46:14,880
intent on destroying the earth

2773
01:46:19,830 --> 01:46:17,360
and now the gripping tale continues in

2774
01:46:22,390 --> 01:46:19,840
the coming of the protectors it's the

2775
01:46:24,629 --> 01:46:22,400
second book of the rockoids trilogy a

2776
01:46:26,870 --> 01:46:24,639
galaxy spanning adventure that pits our

2777
01:46:29,109 --> 01:46:26,880
hapless heroes against powerful

2778
01:46:31,030 --> 01:46:29,119
fanatical enemies that threaten the

2779
01:46:32,229 --> 01:46:31,040
lives of freedom-loving beings

2780
01:46:34,870 --> 01:46:32,239
everywhere

2781
01:46:37,830 --> 01:46:34,880
attack of the rochoids and the coming of

2782
01:46:40,790 --> 01:46:37,840
the protectors classic science fiction

2783
01:46:43,510 --> 01:46:40,800
at its best available now for more

2784
01:46:49,270 --> 01:46:43,520
details visit rocoids.com

2785
01:46:53,270 --> 01:46:50,950
this is ben gordon and if your teeth are

2786
01:46:55,109 --> 01:46:53,280
stained from coffee tea or smoking power

2787
01:46:56,870 --> 01:46:55,119
swabs is the answer in five minutes

2788
01:46:58,790 --> 01:46:56,880
you'll see two shades whiter teeth and

2789
01:47:00,470 --> 01:46:58,800
in seven days six shades there's no

2790
01:47:01,590 --> 01:47:00,480
messy strips or trays that you have to

2791
01:47:03,189 --> 01:47:01,600
leave in your mouth for an hour just

2792
01:47:06,950 --> 01:47:03,199
swab your teeth for five minutes and

2793
01:47:08,470 --> 01:47:06,960
you're done to try power swabs call

2794
01:47:09,910 --> 01:47:08,480
eight four eight 1-800-290-8480 your

2795
01:47:11,590 --> 01:47:09,920
bright white smile will have your

2796
01:47:15,669 --> 01:47:11,600
friends talking about how great you look

2797
01:47:15,679 --> 01:47:19,189
that's 1-800-290-8480

2798
01:47:22,709 --> 01:47:20,950
hi i'm rick gossick president of famous

2799
01:47:25,109 --> 01:47:22,719
footwear did you know that premature

2800
01:47:26,390 --> 01:47:25,119
birth is the number one killer of babies

2801
01:47:28,470 --> 01:47:26,400
that's why we are fighting to end

2802
01:47:30,310 --> 01:47:28,480
premature birth and birth defects along

2803
01:47:32,070 --> 01:47:30,320
with the march of dimes

2804
01:47:34,870 --> 01:47:32,080
you can do something today to give them

2805
01:47:37,350 --> 01:47:34,880
tomorrow your support means programs

2806
01:47:39,030 --> 01:47:37,360
education life-saving research and a

2807
01:47:40,629 --> 01:47:39,040
voice for families in the newborn

2808
01:47:43,189 --> 01:47:40,639
intensive care unit

2809
01:47:45,750 --> 01:47:43,199
together we can save babies lives

2810
01:47:51,920 --> 01:47:45,760
give them tomorrow at march of dimes dot

2811
01:47:54,060 --> 01:47:52,740
[Applause]

2812
01:47:56,629 --> 01:47:54,070
[Music]

2813
01:47:59,910 --> 01:47:56,639
[Applause]

2814
01:48:03,830 --> 01:47:59,920
welcome back to the paracast the gold

2815
01:48:04,790 --> 01:48:03,840
standard of paranormal radio

2816
01:48:08,130 --> 01:48:04,800
now

2817
01:48:11,830 --> 01:48:08,140
here's jane steinberg

2818
01:48:14,470 --> 01:48:12,950
okay so

2819
01:48:17,030 --> 01:48:14,480
you have to find like a published

2820
01:48:19,590 --> 01:48:17,040
obituary of like ray barker or jim

2821
01:48:22,229 --> 01:48:19,600
mosley or any of these people or john

2822
01:48:23,910 --> 01:48:22,239
keel or richard hall or donald kehoe

2823
01:48:26,070 --> 01:48:23,920
there i said it

2824
01:48:28,709 --> 01:48:26,080
yeah unless it's like you know marilyn

2825
01:48:30,070 --> 01:48:28,719
monroe or you know frank sinatra

2826
01:48:31,990 --> 01:48:30,080
somebody like that where their files are

2827
01:48:34,229 --> 01:48:32,000
actually online but even if they weren't

2828
01:48:35,990 --> 01:48:34,239
if it's somebody who's obviously so well

2829
01:48:37,750 --> 01:48:36,000
known and they're dead that everybody

2830
01:48:39,510 --> 01:48:37,760
knows they're dead then that's a

2831
01:48:41,189 --> 01:48:39,520
different thing but if you you know

2832
01:48:43,990 --> 01:48:41,199
you're looking for the files on an

2833
01:48:45,350 --> 01:48:44,000
obscure ufo researcher who died in say

2834
01:48:47,189 --> 01:48:45,360
65

2835
01:48:49,830 --> 01:48:47,199
that would be more difficult because the

2836
01:48:52,550 --> 01:48:49,840
ma that may not be online anywhere

2837
01:48:55,030 --> 01:48:52,560
and they won't accept you know something

2838
01:48:56,790 --> 01:48:55,040
that's just in a word document you know

2839
01:48:58,870 --> 01:48:56,800
they want to be able to prove it's it's

2840
01:49:01,109 --> 01:48:58,880
a real obituary so it has to come from

2841
01:49:03,430 --> 01:49:01,119
an accredited site or

2842
01:49:06,070 --> 01:49:03,440
cutting from a newspaper with the actual

2843
01:49:07,669 --> 01:49:06,080
name of the newspaper and where the date

2844
01:49:09,430 --> 01:49:07,679
etc etc

2845
01:49:11,750 --> 01:49:09,440
and of course the other issue is that if

2846
01:49:14,229 --> 01:49:11,760
the file hasn't already been released

2847
01:49:16,149 --> 01:49:14,239
then they have to search for the file

2848
01:49:19,109 --> 01:49:16,159
you know in the old archives underground

2849
01:49:21,430 --> 01:49:19,119
or whatever and that can take time you

2850
01:49:24,070 --> 01:49:21,440
know and time takes money they can

2851
01:49:26,070 --> 01:49:24,080
charge you by the hour for search fees

2852
01:49:28,950 --> 01:49:26,080
you know to look for documents and and

2853
01:49:31,350 --> 01:49:28,960
that's that's only done really because

2854
01:49:33,430 --> 01:49:31,360
somebody literally does have to go and

2855
01:49:35,750 --> 01:49:33,440
search for these files that may not have

2856
01:49:38,310 --> 01:49:35,760
surfaced now that's why if you go to the

2857
01:49:40,310 --> 01:49:38,320
fbi's website the vaults you can find

2858
01:49:42,390 --> 01:49:40,320
now hundreds and hundreds of

2859
01:49:44,550 --> 01:49:42,400
subject matters which comprise

2860
01:49:45,750 --> 01:49:44,560
altogether probably millions of pages

2861
01:49:48,149 --> 01:49:45,760
because they've already been

2862
01:49:50,229 --> 01:49:48,159
declassified so you can read those but

2863
01:49:52,629 --> 01:49:50,239
if you've wanted something that hasn't

2864
01:49:54,790 --> 01:49:52,639
already been declassified that could be

2865
01:49:56,790 --> 01:49:54,800
more difficult and even if there is a

2866
01:49:58,310 --> 01:49:56,800
file you know there's like six pieces of

2867
01:50:01,510 --> 01:49:58,320
legislation that allow for the

2868
01:50:04,070 --> 01:50:01,520
continuing withholding of files

2869
01:50:07,510 --> 01:50:04,080
you know for example if you wanted to

2870
01:50:09,430 --> 01:50:07,520
find the fbi's file or one particular

2871
01:50:11,510 --> 01:50:09,440
researcher and there was something in

2872
01:50:15,350 --> 01:50:11,520
that file about you know the person's

2873
01:50:16,790 --> 01:50:15,360
health um health privacy issues are

2874
01:50:19,270 --> 01:50:16,800
actually one part of the freedom

2875
01:50:21,990 --> 01:50:19,280
information app that can allow files not

2876
01:50:24,709 --> 01:50:22,000
to be declassified because

2877
01:50:26,229 --> 01:50:24,719
alive or dead it violates a person's

2878
01:50:29,830 --> 01:50:26,239
health privacy

2879
01:50:31,510 --> 01:50:29,840
the most expensive foia request

2880
01:50:33,669 --> 01:50:31,520
that you've heard about i've heard of

2881
01:50:35,590 --> 01:50:33,679
people doing requests and they get back

2882
01:50:37,990 --> 01:50:35,600
well it's going to cost you x amount of

2883
01:50:39,990 --> 01:50:38,000
money for us to uh to release that

2884
01:50:42,070 --> 01:50:40,000
information i've heard some outlandish

2885
01:50:44,390 --> 01:50:42,080
sums what what's the

2886
01:50:45,590 --> 01:50:44,400
what's your personal highest money

2887
01:50:47,750 --> 01:50:45,600
amount and what's the highest one that

2888
01:50:49,830 --> 01:50:47,760
you've heard of i couldn't i know the

2889
01:50:52,229 --> 01:50:49,840
the highest one i've ever heard of is in

2890
01:50:53,430 --> 01:50:52,239
you know literally in the thousands but

2891
01:50:55,750 --> 01:50:53,440
you know if you're going to make a

2892
01:50:57,910 --> 01:50:55,760
request what they recommend is that you

2893
01:51:00,550 --> 01:50:57,920
put like a a dollar limit on it you know

2894
01:51:03,430 --> 01:51:00,560
you say something like i hereby

2895
01:51:05,590 --> 01:51:03,440
uh request access to files on john smith

2896
01:51:07,830 --> 01:51:05,600
whose last known address was et cetera

2897
01:51:08,709 --> 01:51:07,840
et cetera easy obituary

2898
01:51:11,030 --> 01:51:08,719
for

2899
01:51:13,030 --> 01:51:11,040
uh search fees and

2900
01:51:15,510 --> 01:51:13,040
photocopying fees

2901
01:51:18,470 --> 01:51:15,520
or you know as it put them in on a pdf

2902
01:51:22,390 --> 01:51:18,480
on a on a disk and send it to you

2903
01:51:24,149 --> 01:51:22,400
i agree to pay up to you know 150 and if

2904
01:51:26,709 --> 01:51:24,159
they think it's going to come to any

2905
01:51:29,030 --> 01:51:26,719
more they will let you know to see if

2906
01:51:31,510 --> 01:51:29,040
you want to proceed beyond that point

2907
01:51:34,070 --> 01:51:31,520
as i said you know the so many so many

2908
01:51:35,830 --> 01:51:34,080
files have surfaced that it's not you

2909
01:51:38,709 --> 01:51:35,840
know it's not paranoid to think you've

2910
01:51:40,790 --> 01:51:38,719
got to file when the adamski van tassel

2911
01:51:43,589 --> 01:51:40,800
williams and bender

2912
01:51:46,470 --> 01:51:43,599
yeah all those frank strangers all those

2913
01:51:48,149 --> 01:51:46,480
files have been declassified you know so

2914
01:51:50,390 --> 01:51:48,159
there's no reason why there shouldn't be

2915
01:51:52,149 --> 01:51:50,400
files on us today it would make more

2916
01:51:53,990 --> 01:51:52,159
sense that it would actually make great

2917
01:51:55,990 --> 01:51:54,000
sense that there would be files on us

2918
01:51:58,550 --> 01:51:56,000
when you look at the fact that that's

2919
01:52:00,149 --> 01:51:58,560
how it was in the past as well

2920
01:52:03,589 --> 01:52:00,159
i shudder to think what kind of files

2921
01:52:05,189 --> 01:52:03,599
they have on me

2922
01:52:06,550 --> 01:52:05,199
well you know i think a lot a lot of

2923
01:52:09,030 --> 01:52:06,560
these files if you look at the older

2924
01:52:11,109 --> 01:52:09,040
ones they're sort of just basically

2925
01:52:13,189 --> 01:52:11,119
collections of data

2926
01:52:15,030 --> 01:52:13,199
uh you know somebody goes along and

2927
01:52:17,189 --> 01:52:15,040
listens to somebody's lecture so they

2928
01:52:19,270 --> 01:52:17,199
get an idea of who you are they might

2929
01:52:21,669 --> 01:52:19,280
pick up a copy of the book i mean frank

2930
01:52:23,910 --> 01:52:21,679
edwards is book for example

2931
01:52:27,189 --> 01:52:23,920
flying source of serious business

2932
01:52:31,350 --> 01:52:27,199
um there's actually a three-page review

2933
01:52:33,350 --> 01:52:31,360
put together by the fbi on that book um

2934
01:52:35,430 --> 01:52:33,360
you know so

2935
01:52:37,750 --> 01:52:35,440
they do they go out sort of the regular

2936
01:52:39,589 --> 01:52:37,760
way of of finding information now and i

2937
01:52:42,070 --> 01:52:39,599
guess you know if they want to take

2938
01:52:45,030 --> 01:52:42,080
things further in today's world that's

2939
01:52:47,830 --> 01:52:45,040
much easier you know monitor your email

2940
01:52:50,470 --> 01:52:47,840
your cell phone your landline

2941
01:52:52,790 --> 01:52:50,480
you know your twitter feed

2942
01:52:54,950 --> 01:52:52,800
facebook messages i mean

2943
01:52:57,109 --> 01:52:54,960
none of that is safe today

2944
01:53:00,070 --> 01:52:57,119
you know and it's far easier than having

2945
01:53:02,470 --> 01:53:00,080
to sort of intercept mail and

2946
01:53:03,430 --> 01:53:02,480
lurk outside somebody's home or whatever

2947
01:53:04,790 --> 01:53:03,440
you know

2948
01:53:07,350 --> 01:53:04,800
um

2949
01:53:09,589 --> 01:53:07,360
so it wouldn't surprise me if if it's

2950
01:53:11,189 --> 01:53:09,599
still going on you know to what extent

2951
01:53:13,990 --> 01:53:11,199
anything's actually done with it or it

2952
01:53:17,270 --> 01:53:14,000
just you know entered this huge

2953
01:53:18,709 --> 01:53:17,280
you know sort of online vault of data on

2954
01:53:20,950 --> 01:53:18,719
this person and that person i think

2955
01:53:22,390 --> 01:53:20,960
that's probably more likely you know for

2956
01:53:24,950 --> 01:53:22,400
the day when

2957
01:53:27,189 --> 01:53:24,960
it may be needed but probably won't you

2958
01:53:29,430 --> 01:53:27,199
know as i said i think a lot of it comes

2959
01:53:31,109 --> 01:53:29,440
down to like parallels with

2960
01:53:32,709 --> 01:53:31,119
animal rights people and things like

2961
01:53:35,430 --> 01:53:32,719
that they just

2962
01:53:37,109 --> 01:53:35,440
certain people just view you as if you

2963
01:53:38,790 --> 01:53:37,119
if you're into that kind of thing you're

2964
01:53:40,709 --> 01:53:38,800
a troublemaker you're anti-government

2965
01:53:42,310 --> 01:53:40,719
when you're not you know you're just

2966
01:53:44,149 --> 01:53:42,320
you're interested in something or you

2967
01:53:45,189 --> 01:53:44,159
care about the environment or something

2968
01:53:47,910 --> 01:53:45,199
that make you actually make your

2969
01:53:50,470 --> 01:53:47,920
anti-government you know

2970
01:53:52,070 --> 01:53:50,480
this would be a good spot to uh

2971
01:53:53,750 --> 01:53:52,080
ask one of the questions that we have at

2972
01:53:54,550 --> 01:53:53,760
our question bank where our listeners

2973
01:53:57,270 --> 01:53:54,560
are

2974
01:53:59,830 --> 01:53:57,280
able to post questions that we then ask

2975
01:54:02,229 --> 01:53:59,840
our our guests here on the show and this

2976
01:54:05,270 --> 01:54:02,239
one comes from chuckleberry finn who

2977
01:54:07,270 --> 01:54:05,280
has been a poster here at the uh at the

2978
01:54:09,990 --> 01:54:07,280
question bank and on the forum

2979
01:54:11,390 --> 01:54:10,000
since 2007 and uh

2980
01:54:13,750 --> 01:54:11,400
he's only got

2981
01:54:15,990 --> 01:54:13,760
693 messages in

2982
01:54:17,750 --> 01:54:16,000
nine years but uh you you pulled him out

2983
01:54:18,790 --> 01:54:17,760
of the woodwork nick it's chuckleberry

2984
01:54:21,030 --> 01:54:18,800
thin

2985
01:54:23,350 --> 01:54:21,040
and he's wondering if you know why we're

2986
01:54:25,510 --> 01:54:23,360
special agents of the fbi

2987
01:54:28,070 --> 01:54:25,520
so deeply interested in the life career

2988
01:54:29,750 --> 01:54:28,080
and activities of science fiction author

2989
01:54:31,270 --> 01:54:29,760
philip k dick

2990
01:54:33,430 --> 01:54:31,280
now this is something i didn't know that

2991
01:54:36,550 --> 01:54:33,440
he had an extensive

2992
01:54:38,870 --> 01:54:36,560
fbi file are you aware of this yeah i've

2993
01:54:39,990 --> 01:54:38,880
actually got philip k dick's fbi file i

2994
01:54:41,430 --> 01:54:40,000
mean

2995
01:54:43,189 --> 01:54:41,440
if you read the file it's actually a

2996
01:54:45,270 --> 01:54:43,199
really weird one

2997
01:54:48,390 --> 01:54:45,280
he he wrote a number of letters to the

2998
01:54:49,589 --> 01:54:48,400
fbi which the fbi responded to and

2999
01:54:52,390 --> 01:54:49,599
looked into

3000
01:54:53,830 --> 01:54:52,400
he uh claimed that he'd uncovered this

3001
01:54:57,830 --> 01:54:53,840
sort of

3002
01:55:01,750 --> 01:54:57,840
post-war nazi almost like a fourth reich

3003
01:55:04,950 --> 01:55:01,760
which was secretly going around and

3004
01:55:07,430 --> 01:55:04,960
speaking to sci-fi writers

3005
01:55:10,709 --> 01:55:07,440
and basically in some cases trying to

3006
01:55:13,350 --> 01:55:10,719
bribe them or threaten them into

3007
01:55:15,750 --> 01:55:13,360
inserting pro-nazi

3008
01:55:18,310 --> 01:55:15,760
propaganda into their sci-fi novels and

3009
01:55:21,510 --> 01:55:18,320
he claimed uh philip k claimed that he

3010
01:55:22,709 --> 01:55:21,520
was visited by several of these sort of

3011
01:55:25,470 --> 01:55:22,719
sinister

3012
01:55:28,629 --> 01:55:25,480
sort of post-third right you know even

3013
01:55:31,589 --> 01:55:28,639
post-forthright kind of characters

3014
01:55:35,350 --> 01:55:31,599
who wanted him to slant his sci-fi

3015
01:55:39,030 --> 01:55:35,360
novels in a way that sort of

3016
01:55:41,589 --> 01:55:39,040
posted the or pasted the um the nazis in

3017
01:55:43,510 --> 01:55:41,599
in a good light so to speak and he felt

3018
01:55:46,390 --> 01:55:43,520
there was this vast conspiracy trying to

3019
01:55:48,390 --> 01:55:46,400
invade the world of sci-fi right

3020
01:55:50,629 --> 01:55:48,400
to do that and that that was one of the

3021
01:55:52,310 --> 01:55:50,639
main issues that um

3022
01:55:53,990 --> 01:55:52,320
caused the fbi to look into this

3023
01:55:56,470 --> 01:55:54,000
particular story

3024
01:55:59,109 --> 01:55:56,480
well interesting do we have any other uh

3025
01:56:02,550 --> 01:55:59,119
other authors heinlein

3026
01:56:04,790 --> 01:56:02,560
bradbury uh azamon well i'm not sure

3027
01:56:06,629 --> 01:56:04,800
ray bradbury's files on at the fbi's

3028
01:56:08,950 --> 01:56:06,639
website if i remember correctly but it's

3029
01:56:11,189 --> 01:56:08,960
there's nothing sort of really major in

3030
01:56:13,270 --> 01:56:11,199
there one of the really interesting ones

3031
01:56:14,950 --> 01:56:13,280
is it's actually two separate files but

3032
01:56:17,030 --> 01:56:14,960
one on l ron hubbard and the other one

3033
01:56:20,470 --> 01:56:17,040
on the church of scientology

3034
01:56:22,550 --> 01:56:20,480
um l ron hubbard's file is extensive and

3035
01:56:26,070 --> 01:56:22,560
one of the weird and interesting things

3036
01:56:28,470 --> 01:56:26,080
in there is that he reported to the fbi

3037
01:56:31,430 --> 01:56:28,480
how uh or it reached the fbi

3038
01:56:33,109 --> 01:56:31,440
through the police i think but um he

3039
01:56:34,629 --> 01:56:33,119
woke up in the middle of the night and

3040
01:56:38,070 --> 01:56:34,639
there was this weird character in the

3041
01:56:39,510 --> 01:56:38,080
bedroom who injected uh something into

3042
01:56:41,189 --> 01:56:39,520
his arm

3043
01:56:43,189 --> 01:56:41,199
or his chest i forget which one it was

3044
01:56:44,550 --> 01:56:43,199
now but it was basically that you know

3045
01:56:46,470 --> 01:56:44,560
some sinister

3046
01:56:49,189 --> 01:56:46,480
guy come into the home

3047
01:56:51,830 --> 01:56:49,199
and injected him with something and um

3048
01:56:54,149 --> 01:56:51,840
you know it's a really weird story and a

3049
01:56:55,910 --> 01:56:54,159
couple of people i shared it with

3050
01:56:58,870 --> 01:56:55,920
wondered if it actually was like some

3051
01:57:00,550 --> 01:56:58,880
sort of early mk ultra type thing you

3052
01:57:03,350 --> 01:57:00,560
know sort of feeling

3053
01:57:05,350 --> 01:57:03,360
um hovered with sort of mind-altering

3054
01:57:07,189 --> 01:57:05,360
chemicals and whatever and you know and

3055
01:57:09,830 --> 01:57:07,199
then of course he got involved in

3056
01:57:11,270 --> 01:57:09,840
dianetics and scientology you know that

3057
01:57:14,149 --> 01:57:11,280
one of the guys i spoke with actually

3058
01:57:15,270 --> 01:57:14,159
wondered if it was sort of like um an mk

3059
01:57:17,189 --> 01:57:15,280
ultra

3060
01:57:18,550 --> 01:57:17,199
creation almost you know he was an

3061
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unwitting

3062
01:57:23,350 --> 01:57:21,119
individual in this program and part of

3063
01:57:25,350 --> 01:57:23,360
it involved you know him being pumped

3064
01:57:28,229 --> 01:57:25,360
with chemicals to uh

3065
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to get him around to this idea of aliens

3066
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and ufos and so on

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let's go into that and other stuff with

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3069
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starting from women in black and going

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hey this is marie d jones the author of

3169
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this book is from the future

3170
02:02:13,030 --> 02:02:02,080
and you are listening to the paracast

3171
02:02:16,149 --> 02:02:14,229
i'll tell you

3172
02:02:18,550 --> 02:02:16,159
something here the scientologists are

3173
02:02:19,350 --> 02:02:18,560
going to be after us i was going to say

3174
02:02:24,149 --> 02:02:19,360
uh

3175
02:02:29,270 --> 02:02:27,270
our guests do not reflect our editor

3176
02:02:31,189 --> 02:02:29,280
no but i mean joking aside it is

3177
02:02:33,910 --> 02:02:31,199
interesting that is actually in the file

3178
02:02:35,669 --> 02:02:33,920
where it talks about you know um and he

3179
02:02:37,270 --> 02:02:35,679
wondered i think if

3180
02:02:39,109 --> 02:02:37,280
i think he said something like it was to

3181
02:02:41,030 --> 02:02:39,119
cause a thrombosis or something like

3182
02:02:42,629 --> 02:02:41,040
that but but he but it is in the file

3183
02:02:44,470 --> 02:02:42,639
and there's a lot of interesting things

3184
02:02:46,550 --> 02:02:44,480
about his background

3185
02:02:48,790 --> 02:02:46,560
uh anything about his uh relationship

3186
02:02:51,430 --> 02:02:48,800
with jack parsons i don't think so but

3187
02:02:53,830 --> 02:02:51,440
jack parsons's fbi file has been

3188
02:02:57,189 --> 02:02:53,840
declassified that that's heavily

3189
02:02:59,750 --> 02:02:57,199
extensive and a lot of it deals with how

3190
02:03:02,550 --> 02:02:59,760
he wanted to do some work rocket-based

3191
02:03:04,790 --> 02:03:02,560
work in israel and of course that sort

3192
02:03:06,790 --> 02:03:04,800
of raised a few eyes and

3193
02:03:09,910 --> 02:03:06,800
background checks were made and

3194
02:03:12,629 --> 02:03:09,920
reportedly supposedly sort of taken some

3195
02:03:14,629 --> 02:03:12,639
classified rocket-based files from the

3196
02:03:18,390 --> 02:03:14,639
office and he lost his top secret

3197
02:03:22,070 --> 02:03:20,550
his clearance yeah that's right yeah but

3198
02:03:23,910 --> 02:03:22,080
there's some interesting things little

3199
02:03:26,790 --> 02:03:23,920
snippets in there there's a few

3200
02:03:29,430 --> 02:03:26,800
references in the fbi file to his uh

3201
02:03:31,990 --> 02:03:29,440
connections to aleister crowley

3202
02:03:34,390 --> 02:03:32,000
and also to you know he's

3203
02:03:36,470 --> 02:03:34,400
his own interest in the occult

3204
02:03:38,629 --> 02:03:36,480
and he makes references to things like

3205
02:03:43,990 --> 02:03:38,639
um you know he's hanging out with quote

3206
02:03:47,910 --> 02:03:45,830
yeah but a lot of those people who are

3207
02:03:50,550 --> 02:03:47,920
interconnected you know like as i said

3208
02:03:52,790 --> 02:03:50,560
like hubbard and parsons you know they

3209
02:03:55,510 --> 02:03:52,800
all had files on them and um and some of

3210
02:03:57,510 --> 02:03:55,520
them have surfaced so you know it's sort

3211
02:03:59,589 --> 02:03:57,520
of a fascinating thing when you start

3212
02:04:02,310 --> 02:03:59,599
looking into a lot of these freedom

3213
02:04:04,709 --> 02:04:02,320
information files for example in the

3214
02:04:08,070 --> 02:04:04,719
truman bathroom file drew and bethan was

3215
02:04:11,510 --> 02:04:08,080
this 1950s um contact team claimed to

3216
02:04:13,750 --> 02:04:11,520
have met this um hot-looking space alien

3217
02:04:16,390 --> 02:04:13,760
woman named aura reigns

3218
02:04:19,350 --> 02:04:16,400
well in the fbi files

3219
02:04:22,550 --> 02:04:19,360
and written by the fbi all reigns is

3220
02:04:25,990 --> 02:04:22,560
described and i'm quoting exactly here a

3221
02:04:27,589 --> 02:04:26,000
ravishing space commandant

3222
02:04:29,109 --> 02:04:27,599
who was uh

3223
02:04:31,830 --> 02:04:29,119
not even five foot tall she was very

3224
02:04:33,109 --> 02:04:31,840
very diminutive yes very short but

3225
02:04:35,430 --> 02:04:33,119
apparently she was pretty good looking

3226
02:04:36,950 --> 02:04:35,440
but she was like yeah really sure but

3227
02:04:39,189 --> 02:04:36,960
you know one of the weird things about i

3228
02:04:41,350 --> 02:04:39,199
actually talk about truman bathroom and

3229
02:04:43,669 --> 02:04:41,360
the women in black because

3230
02:04:45,030 --> 02:04:43,679
bathroom had these alleged encounters

3231
02:04:47,430 --> 02:04:45,040
with these

3232
02:04:49,990 --> 02:04:47,440
these strange entities if you like from

3233
02:04:52,229 --> 02:04:50,000
a planet so called clarion and the

3234
02:04:55,189 --> 02:04:52,239
captain of the craft was supposedly this

3235
02:04:57,350 --> 02:04:55,199
aura reigns and um

3236
02:04:59,430 --> 02:04:57,360
better himself described as being tops

3237
02:05:01,990 --> 02:04:59,440
in shapeliness and beauty that was his

3238
02:05:04,950 --> 02:05:02,000
exact words versus he wrote a whole book

3239
02:05:07,270 --> 02:05:04,960
of rhyming couplets poetry

3240
02:05:09,589 --> 02:05:07,280
yeah that's right and that but it is a

3241
02:05:11,270 --> 02:05:09,599
boar a border flying saucer that's the

3242
02:05:13,910 --> 02:05:11,280
sort of one that he's most well known

3243
02:05:15,830 --> 02:05:13,920
for yeah one of the lesser known things

3244
02:05:18,470 --> 02:05:15,840
and i thought about this in the book in

3245
02:05:20,629 --> 02:05:18,480
the women in black book is the fact that

3246
02:05:23,350 --> 02:05:20,639
bathroom claimed to have seen all the

3247
02:05:25,750 --> 02:05:23,360
reigns actually walking down the streets

3248
02:05:27,750 --> 02:05:25,760
of both los angeles and las vegas on a

3249
02:05:30,629 --> 02:05:27,760
couple of occasions and she was in

3250
02:05:33,750 --> 02:05:30,639
disguise and he described her as wearing

3251
02:05:36,790 --> 02:05:33,760
black sunglasses a black beret a black

3252
02:05:39,750 --> 02:05:36,800
long black top black sunglasses

3253
02:05:42,470 --> 02:05:39,760
and a red skirt so she was almost like a

3254
02:05:44,149 --> 02:05:42,480
classic woman in black this happened on

3255
02:05:45,910 --> 02:05:44,159
several occasions where it sounds like

3256
02:05:47,030 --> 02:05:45,920
linda allegedly

3257
02:05:50,390 --> 02:05:47,040
what's that

3258
02:05:52,790 --> 02:05:50,400
sounds like linda howe she wears a beret

3259
02:05:54,950 --> 02:05:52,800
oh i never thought about that

3260
02:05:56,870 --> 02:05:54,960
but uh one thing that bothers me

3261
02:05:59,350 --> 02:05:56,880
listening to this and i'm thinking

3262
02:06:02,149 --> 02:05:59,360
could all this that truman bathroom came

3263
02:06:04,950 --> 02:06:02,159
up with been a metaphor for some real

3264
02:06:06,950 --> 02:06:04,960
life relationship he had with a woman

3265
02:06:08,709 --> 02:06:06,960
but he couldn't admit he's just

3266
02:06:10,550 --> 02:06:08,719
has the hots for this woman or had an

3267
02:06:13,109 --> 02:06:10,560
affair so he made up this whole story

3268
02:06:15,270 --> 02:06:13,119
about a woman from outer space

3269
02:06:17,510 --> 02:06:15,280
well i i don't think he made it up in

3270
02:06:19,830 --> 02:06:17,520
terms of he deliberately lied or

3271
02:06:21,589 --> 02:06:19,840
anything like that but there a good very

3272
02:06:24,629 --> 02:06:21,599
good case can be made that there was a

3273
02:06:28,229 --> 02:06:24,639
major psychological aspect to it because

3274
02:06:30,790 --> 02:06:28,239
when he allegedly met or arraigns he was

3275
02:06:32,870 --> 02:06:30,800
on his second marriage and that was

3276
02:06:35,350 --> 02:06:32,880
already in trouble

3277
02:06:37,830 --> 02:06:35,360
so you know he was working away from his

3278
02:06:39,990 --> 02:06:37,840
wife for several months out in nevada

3279
02:06:42,069 --> 02:06:40,000
while she was back home in california

3280
02:06:45,270 --> 02:06:42,079
and he claimed to have these

3281
02:06:48,390 --> 02:06:45,280
eerie encounters with this this woman or

3282
02:06:52,470 --> 02:06:48,400
a reigns on a place called um mormon

3283
02:06:54,550 --> 02:06:52,480
mesa in nevada and if you read his story

3284
02:06:57,350 --> 02:06:54,560
uh when he met these little people the

3285
02:06:58,950 --> 02:06:57,360
clarionites as they were called and the

3286
02:07:00,550 --> 02:06:58,960
you know the uh

3287
02:07:03,430 --> 02:07:00,560
the leader of the clarion eyes this

3288
02:07:07,589 --> 02:07:03,440
beautiful woman they actually sound like

3289
02:07:09,030 --> 02:07:07,599
classic middle-aged era stories of you

3290
02:07:11,430 --> 02:07:09,040
know somebody gets to take a manger

3291
02:07:14,149 --> 02:07:11,440
sagan to the fairy kingdom and you know

3292
02:07:16,149 --> 02:07:14,159
has sex with the fairy queen and then

3293
02:07:18,870 --> 02:07:16,159
finds that 200 years have gone by

3294
02:07:20,950 --> 02:07:18,880
instead of two months that kind of thing

3295
02:07:22,629 --> 02:07:20,960
there's a lot of parallels there and

3296
02:07:25,589 --> 02:07:22,639
another thing that's quite telling is

3297
02:07:28,470 --> 02:07:25,599
that after his second divorce bathroom

3298
02:07:32,149 --> 02:07:28,480
got married for a third time to a woman

3299
02:07:34,790 --> 02:07:32,159
named alvirah roberts now alvirah begins

3300
02:07:36,950 --> 02:07:34,800
with a and ends with a as does aura and

3301
02:07:40,310 --> 02:07:36,960
roberts begins with r and ends with s as

3302
02:07:42,470 --> 02:07:40,320
just reigns so subconsciously or not you

3303
02:07:44,470 --> 02:07:42,480
know it was all perhaps alvirah roberts

3304
02:07:46,310 --> 02:07:44,480
and ora reigns you know that wasn't

3305
02:07:48,550 --> 02:07:46,320
coincidentally it was like he was so

3306
02:07:49,910 --> 02:07:48,560
obsessed with this woman whether she was

3307
02:07:52,470 --> 02:07:49,920
real or not

3308
02:07:54,149 --> 02:07:52,480
you could really do a good psychological

3309
02:07:57,109 --> 02:07:54,159
study on him as to whether or not he had

3310
02:07:59,589 --> 02:07:57,119
real experiences or his mind was so

3311
02:08:02,310 --> 02:07:59,599
altered if you like and he beca actually

3312
02:08:04,069 --> 02:08:02,320
believed the fantasies that he didn't

3313
02:08:06,470 --> 02:08:04,079
lie about but may have sprung into his

3314
02:08:08,310 --> 02:08:06,480
mind as a way to try and you know like a

3315
02:08:10,229 --> 02:08:08,320
comfort zone or something along those

3316
02:08:12,229 --> 02:08:10,239
lines

3317
02:08:14,310 --> 02:08:12,239
yeah ray stanford

3318
02:08:15,990 --> 02:08:14,320
has a very interesting story

3319
02:08:18,390 --> 02:08:16,000
that really makes you scratch your head

3320
02:08:20,069 --> 02:08:18,400
about about truman bathroom

3321
02:08:21,510 --> 02:08:20,079
and that is that

3322
02:08:23,350 --> 02:08:21,520
supposedly

3323
02:08:25,510 --> 02:08:23,360
before she left

3324
02:08:27,270 --> 02:08:25,520
to return to clarion

3325
02:08:28,790 --> 02:08:27,280
she went into a

3326
02:08:31,830 --> 02:08:28,800
a jewelry store

3327
02:08:34,870 --> 02:08:31,840
and had a special pendant made

3328
02:08:36,470 --> 02:08:34,880
for truman she was unable because she

3329
02:08:38,149 --> 02:08:36,480
was leaving she was unable to give it to

3330
02:08:39,750 --> 02:08:38,159
him but she

3331
02:08:42,310 --> 02:08:39,760
extracted a promise from the jeweler

3332
02:08:44,550 --> 02:08:42,320
that when he saw truman to give him this

3333
02:08:46,310 --> 02:08:44,560
as a as a parting gift

3334
02:08:48,069 --> 02:08:46,320
this was told

3335
02:08:50,629 --> 02:08:48,079
a friend i think if i remember correctly

3336
02:08:52,950 --> 02:08:50,639
a friend of true truman's uh

3337
02:08:54,709 --> 02:08:52,960
was the one that told ray this story

3338
02:08:55,750 --> 02:08:54,719
it was something to do with um the

3339
02:08:57,830 --> 02:08:55,760
jeweler

3340
02:08:59,750 --> 02:08:57,840
kind of put his initials on the back of

3341
02:09:01,830 --> 02:08:59,760
this it was like a medallion

3342
02:09:03,270 --> 02:09:01,840
uh and you know that you wore around

3343
02:09:06,709 --> 02:09:03,280
your neck with a chain

3344
02:09:09,350 --> 02:09:07,510
i

3345
02:09:12,229 --> 02:09:09,360
have to go back to my

3346
02:09:14,069 --> 02:09:12,239
manuscript of the book the ray book but

3347
02:09:15,030 --> 02:09:14,079
evidently there was validation of this

3348
02:09:18,310 --> 02:09:15,040
later

3349
02:09:19,669 --> 02:09:18,320
when the jeweler i think saw truman at a

3350
02:09:21,430 --> 02:09:19,679
um

3351
02:09:23,910 --> 02:09:21,440
speaking at a conference or something

3352
02:09:26,709 --> 02:09:23,920
and he saw he was wearing the medallion

3353
02:09:28,950 --> 02:09:26,719
and it had his initials on it

3354
02:09:31,270 --> 02:09:28,960
something like that or the jeweler told

3355
02:09:33,270 --> 02:09:31,280
this guy the story and the guy didn't

3356
02:09:35,270 --> 02:09:33,280
know whether to believe it or not and

3357
02:09:36,470 --> 02:09:35,280
then he saw truman and he saw the media

3358
02:09:37,990 --> 02:09:36,480
and he turned it over and sure enough

3359
02:09:39,990 --> 02:09:38,000
there was the initials on there i have

3360
02:09:41,910 --> 02:09:40,000
to go back to get all the details but

3361
02:09:44,229 --> 02:09:41,920
but ray was very impressed with this and

3362
02:09:46,950 --> 02:09:44,239
in fact he said you know he met all

3363
02:09:49,830 --> 02:09:46,960
these guys uh williamson

3364
02:09:51,990 --> 02:09:49,840
george van tassel adamski spent quite a

3365
02:09:55,189 --> 02:09:52,000
bit of time picking his brain and

3366
02:09:57,109 --> 02:09:55,199
debunking his photographs ultimately

3367
02:09:58,310 --> 02:09:57,119
but he said out of all of them though

3368
02:10:00,709 --> 02:09:58,320
the one that

3369
02:10:02,310 --> 02:10:00,719
he seems to think maybe had some

3370
02:10:04,950 --> 02:10:02,320
validity or some truth to it was the

3371
02:10:07,270 --> 02:10:04,960
truman bathroom uh account uh for some

3372
02:10:08,310 --> 02:10:07,280
reason he just was uh he just had a

3373
02:10:09,750 --> 02:10:08,320
feeling that something really

3374
02:10:12,470 --> 02:10:09,760
extraordinary had happened to the guy

3375
02:10:14,550 --> 02:10:12,480
and that that that maybe he had he had

3376
02:10:16,229 --> 02:10:14,560
embellished the story but but the the

3377
02:10:18,390 --> 02:10:16,239
essence of the story

3378
02:10:19,189 --> 02:10:18,400
according to ray appeared to ring true

3379
02:10:21,030 --> 02:10:19,199
on

3380
02:10:22,790 --> 02:10:21,040
what that's worth

3381
02:10:23,750 --> 02:10:22,800
if we don't do this we'll have more

3382
02:10:25,109 --> 02:10:23,760
troubles

3383
02:10:26,709 --> 02:10:25,119
we've got

3384
02:10:29,750 --> 02:10:26,719
nick redfearn

3385
02:10:39,990 --> 02:10:29,760
gene steinberg chris o'brien you're in

3386
02:10:44,750 --> 02:10:43,510
thank you for listening to gcn

3387
02:10:47,430 --> 02:10:44,760
be sure to visit

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gcnlive.com today

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3404
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3460
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3489
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3492
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3494
02:15:02,470 --> 02:15:00,790
this is robert hastings author of ufos

3495
02:15:05,189 --> 02:15:02,480
and nukes and you're listening to the

3496
02:15:11,589 --> 02:15:05,199
paracast the gold standard of paranormal

3497
02:15:16,069 --> 02:15:13,589
okay so according to ray stanford if any

3498
02:15:17,189 --> 02:15:16,079
of these cases has any authenticity it

3499
02:15:18,790 --> 02:15:17,199
would be

3500
02:15:21,109 --> 02:15:18,800
german bathroom of course there's also

3501
02:15:23,830 --> 02:15:21,119
the theory that george adamski had

3502
02:15:26,550 --> 02:15:23,840
something happened to him early on years

3503
02:15:28,149 --> 02:15:26,560
before his alleged contact in the desert

3504
02:15:29,109 --> 02:15:28,159
and he wasn't getting the attention he

3505
02:15:31,189 --> 02:15:29,119
wanted

3506
02:15:33,270 --> 02:15:31,199
so he embellished the contact in the

3507
02:15:35,270 --> 02:15:33,280
desert to make himself famous

3508
02:15:37,669 --> 02:15:35,280
right and fabricated the

3509
02:15:40,390 --> 02:15:37,679
photographs in fact he even showed ray

3510
02:15:42,709 --> 02:15:40,400
and his his twin brother rex how he uh

3511
02:15:44,550 --> 02:15:42,719
his uh photographic techniques the

3512
02:15:46,709 --> 02:15:44,560
famous shot of the mothership with the

3513
02:15:48,229 --> 02:15:46,719
glowing objects kind of hovering around

3514
02:15:50,229 --> 02:15:48,239
it

3515
02:15:53,109 --> 02:15:50,239
adamski had a friend who worked at a

3516
02:15:55,669 --> 02:15:53,119
watch company and they used to use a

3517
02:15:58,149 --> 02:15:55,679
highly radioactive radium

3518
02:16:01,669 --> 02:15:58,159
to make the numbers glow and he bought a

3519
02:16:04,229 --> 02:16:01,679
small a small pail of this radium

3520
02:16:05,510 --> 02:16:04,239
and used it to to make the sausage glow

3521
02:16:09,189 --> 02:16:05,520
in the uh

3522
02:16:10,950 --> 02:16:09,199
in which he then photographed and uh ray

3523
02:16:12,390 --> 02:16:10,960
says well you know that stuff's pretty

3524
02:16:13,910 --> 02:16:12,400
dangerous he goes oh i got a whole yeah

3525
02:16:16,790 --> 02:16:13,920
i got a little bucket over here over

3526
02:16:20,790 --> 02:16:18,550
well i think sometimes you know with the

3527
02:16:23,750 --> 02:16:20,800
early contactees they weren't

3528
02:16:26,550 --> 02:16:23,760
lying i think they may actually have

3529
02:16:28,790 --> 02:16:26,560
experienced something which sort of

3530
02:16:30,550 --> 02:16:28,800
manifested in

3531
02:16:33,110 --> 02:16:30,560
something that it sort of hauled out of

3532
02:16:34,870 --> 02:16:33,120
their imagination and their subconscious

3533
02:16:36,389 --> 02:16:34,880
in other words you know we could be

3534
02:16:38,230 --> 02:16:36,399
dealing with some sort of phenomenon

3535
02:16:40,230 --> 02:16:38,240
that could be literally extraterrestrial

3536
02:16:42,629 --> 02:16:40,240
it could be here but

3537
02:16:44,549 --> 02:16:42,639
gets into our minds gets into the depths

3538
02:16:47,669 --> 02:16:44,559
of our imagination

3539
02:16:51,910 --> 02:16:47,679
and our subconscious and manifests for

3540
02:16:54,709 --> 02:16:51,920
us in the most applicable and relevant

3541
02:16:56,709 --> 02:16:54,719
way to communicate with us maybe that's

3542
02:16:59,589 --> 02:16:56,719
why today people see the greys because

3543
02:17:02,230 --> 02:16:59,599
they're so ingrained in popular culture

3544
02:17:04,309 --> 02:17:02,240
that's why in the early 50s people saw

3545
02:17:07,270 --> 02:17:04,319
like adamski saw the long-haired space

3546
02:17:10,309 --> 02:17:07,280
brothers maybe truman bethan wasn't

3547
02:17:13,190 --> 02:17:10,319
lying but his mind some intelligence

3548
02:17:15,669 --> 02:17:13,200
ethereal intelligence presented itself

3549
02:17:18,389 --> 02:17:15,679
in the form of exactly what truman and

3550
02:17:21,509 --> 02:17:18,399
bethan wanted the perfect woman after

3551
02:17:23,349 --> 02:17:21,519
having two failed marriages you know so

3552
02:17:25,509 --> 02:17:23,359
maybe there's something to that idea

3553
02:17:26,790 --> 02:17:25,519
that's you know the phenomenon that

3554
02:17:29,270 --> 02:17:26,800
perhaps that's why the phenomenon

3555
02:17:31,830 --> 02:17:29,280
changes so much over the years because

3556
02:17:33,910 --> 02:17:31,840
it's responding to our perceptions of

3557
02:17:35,669 --> 02:17:33,920
how it should appear you know right and

3558
02:17:37,349 --> 02:17:35,679
it's almost like it may be some sort of

3559
02:17:38,709 --> 02:17:37,359
collective thing that

3560
02:17:41,030 --> 02:17:38,719
there is

3561
02:17:44,150 --> 02:17:41,040
in some way coming up with the types of

3562
02:17:46,950 --> 02:17:44,160
scenarios that create these super memes

3563
02:17:47,830 --> 02:17:46,960
these mean plexes that the ultimate end

3564
02:17:55,190 --> 02:17:47,840
of

3565
02:17:57,349 --> 02:17:55,200
before it gets hit by an asteroid or

3566
02:17:58,709 --> 02:17:57,359
destroyed by nuclear war or you know

3567
02:18:00,870 --> 02:17:58,719
whatever

3568
02:18:02,870 --> 02:18:00,880
we do need to get out and see the cosmos

3569
02:18:04,469 --> 02:18:02,880
at some point before the planet you know

3570
02:18:06,870 --> 02:18:04,479
at least in a billion years we know the

3571
02:18:08,389 --> 02:18:06,880
sun's going to probably go supernova and

3572
02:18:11,509 --> 02:18:08,399
all life in the inner

3573
02:18:13,429 --> 02:18:11,519
solar system will be uh you know toasted

3574
02:18:15,750 --> 02:18:13,439
so it could be some sort of collective

3575
02:18:17,110 --> 02:18:15,760
evolutionary imperative that's being

3576
02:18:19,750 --> 02:18:17,120
enacted through

3577
02:18:22,070 --> 02:18:19,760
specific key people in history who

3578
02:18:23,669 --> 02:18:22,080
somehow managed to push the the uh the

3579
02:18:25,110 --> 02:18:23,679
mean plex forward

3580
02:18:26,950 --> 02:18:25,120
well yeah i mean that's actually one of

3581
02:18:28,629 --> 02:18:26,960
the theories kind of like that that's

3582
02:18:31,110 --> 02:18:28,639
been put forward for the men in black

3583
02:18:32,950 --> 02:18:31,120
that they're so ingrained in society and

3584
02:18:34,230 --> 02:18:32,960
that peop you know people are aware of

3585
02:18:35,830 --> 02:18:34,240
this image

3586
02:18:38,070 --> 02:18:35,840
that we

3587
02:18:41,110 --> 02:18:38,080
unknowingly create them you know that

3588
02:18:43,190 --> 02:18:41,120
we've created the image of these sort of

3589
02:18:45,110 --> 02:18:43,200
sinister guys in black

3590
02:18:47,349 --> 02:18:45,120
with the fedoras that kind of give off

3591
02:18:49,429 --> 02:18:47,359
this air of authority like official

3592
02:18:52,389 --> 02:18:49,439
authority but which clearly aren't

3593
02:18:54,309 --> 02:18:52,399
but which may not be without us they may

3594
02:18:55,669 --> 02:18:54,319
not be able to live because in some

3595
02:18:57,990 --> 02:18:55,679
strange way

3596
02:19:00,870 --> 02:18:58,000
our subconscious has created

3597
02:19:03,349 --> 02:19:00,880
that particular image and then

3598
02:19:04,870 --> 02:19:03,359
expanded on it as the phenomenon becomes

3599
02:19:06,870 --> 02:19:04,880
more and more known

3600
02:19:08,790 --> 02:19:06,880
you know kind of like classic situation

3601
02:19:11,429 --> 02:19:08,800
in more modern times would be like the

3602
02:19:13,509 --> 02:19:11,439
slenderman which you know was absolutely

3603
02:19:16,389 --> 02:19:13,519
an internet creation and now people

3604
02:19:18,389 --> 02:19:16,399
swear they see the slenderman well maybe

3605
02:19:21,349 --> 02:19:18,399
they actually are because so many people

3606
02:19:23,429 --> 02:19:21,359
know of it that we've inadvertently

3607
02:19:27,190 --> 02:19:23,439
created manifested collectively

3608
02:19:29,429 --> 02:19:27,200
manifested a real slenderman right well

3609
02:19:30,950 --> 02:19:29,439
it's interesting that the the early men

3610
02:19:32,950 --> 02:19:30,960
in black reports

3611
02:19:36,230 --> 02:19:32,960
going all the way back to uh to barker

3612
02:19:38,870 --> 02:19:36,240
and in the the early 50s uh

3613
02:19:41,349 --> 02:19:38,880
uh reports that's right when film noir

3614
02:19:43,509 --> 02:19:41,359
was really had just peaked and uh the

3615
02:19:45,750 --> 02:19:43,519
whole black and white sort of uh

3616
02:19:48,549 --> 02:19:45,760
you know sinister men in fedoras lurking

3617
02:19:51,190 --> 02:19:48,559
in the shadows was was quite a very

3618
02:19:53,030 --> 02:19:51,200
strong and and prevalent um artistic

3619
02:19:54,870 --> 02:19:53,040
motif in in film

3620
02:19:57,590 --> 02:19:54,880
and so maybe that that had something to

3621
02:20:00,150 --> 02:19:57,600
do with with the actual detailing of of

3622
02:20:03,110 --> 02:20:00,160
these uh these entities as they

3623
02:20:03,990 --> 02:20:03,120
manifest and uh get all sinister on our

3624
02:20:07,510 --> 02:20:04,000
on our

3625
02:20:09,429 --> 02:20:07,520
so again we're creating our own men in

3626
02:20:10,309 --> 02:20:09,439
black

3627
02:20:12,150 --> 02:20:10,319
yeah

3628
02:20:14,309 --> 02:20:12,160
it's one possibility

3629
02:20:17,429 --> 02:20:14,319
it's like after close encounters uh we

3630
02:20:19,670 --> 02:20:17,439
had an upsurge in in you know in ufo

3631
02:20:21,670 --> 02:20:19,680
reports um after communion came out we

3632
02:20:24,630 --> 02:20:21,680
had an upsurge in reports of

3633
02:20:26,389 --> 02:20:24,640
of alien grays and they only really

3634
02:20:28,309 --> 02:20:26,399
happened initially in the united states

3635
02:20:30,790 --> 02:20:28,319
and it took quite a number of years for

3636
02:20:33,429 --> 02:20:30,800
that that meme to filter outside of the

3637
02:20:34,389 --> 02:20:33,439
united states and in reports of of alien

3638
02:20:36,870 --> 02:20:34,399
greys

3639
02:20:39,190 --> 02:20:36,880
start being reported in other countries

3640
02:20:41,270 --> 02:20:39,200
i forget who it was uh but a number of

3641
02:20:44,150 --> 02:20:41,280
years ago somebody tried to try to

3642
02:20:47,830 --> 02:20:44,160
figure out what the earliest

3643
02:20:50,550 --> 02:20:47,840
alien gray report was and

3644
02:20:52,150 --> 02:20:50,560
a quite number of people were contacted

3645
02:20:53,270 --> 02:20:52,160
and asked to go through their files and

3646
02:20:54,710 --> 02:20:53,280
see if they could come up with the

3647
02:20:56,870 --> 02:20:54,720
earliest

3648
02:20:58,950 --> 02:20:56,880
account of an alien gray

3649
02:21:01,110 --> 02:20:58,960
that that very classic

3650
02:21:02,150 --> 02:21:01,120
sort of archetypal motif

3651
02:21:04,230 --> 02:21:02,160
and of course

3652
02:21:07,590 --> 02:21:04,240
the earliest one would be uh aleister

3653
02:21:09,270 --> 02:21:07,600
crowley and lamb in 1919 where he

3654
02:21:11,510 --> 02:21:09,280
changed the eyes to to make them look

3655
02:21:13,110 --> 02:21:11,520
more human-like because the original

3656
02:21:15,590 --> 02:21:13,120
drawing was so

3657
02:21:17,830 --> 02:21:15,600
so scary that uh friends said if you're

3658
02:21:20,070 --> 02:21:17,840
going to publicly release this you've

3659
02:21:21,590 --> 02:21:20,080
got to make it a little bit less uh

3660
02:21:22,790 --> 02:21:21,600
alien looking

3661
02:21:24,630 --> 02:21:22,800
basically

3662
02:21:27,590 --> 02:21:24,640
so i don't know what's the earliest

3663
02:21:28,630 --> 02:21:27,600
alien gray account that you can think of

3664
02:21:30,150 --> 02:21:28,640
nick

3665
02:21:31,750 --> 02:21:30,160
um

3666
02:21:34,309 --> 02:21:31,760
well certainly that you know the lamb

3667
02:21:35,429 --> 02:21:34,319
one is you know a classic but what i

3668
02:21:37,670 --> 02:21:35,439
would actually say you know there are a

3669
02:21:39,670 --> 02:21:37,680
lot of parallels if you look back at the

3670
02:21:41,910 --> 02:21:39,680
old sort of five six hundred years

3671
02:21:44,389 --> 02:21:41,920
encounters year old encounters in europe

3672
02:21:47,030 --> 02:21:44,399
and particularly you know like scotland

3673
02:21:48,710 --> 02:21:47,040
ireland and wales of so-called fairy

3674
02:21:50,150 --> 02:21:48,720
encounters now today people think of

3675
02:21:52,230 --> 02:21:50,160
fairies you know they think of like

3676
02:21:54,389 --> 02:21:52,240
tinkerbell and little characters

3677
02:21:56,469 --> 02:21:54,399
flitting around you know little lights

3678
02:21:58,309 --> 02:21:56,479
and christmas trees all that kind of

3679
02:22:00,150 --> 02:21:58,319
thing you go back

3680
02:22:01,830 --> 02:22:00,160
you know five six hundred years the

3681
02:22:03,750 --> 02:22:01,840
fairies were like

3682
02:22:05,110 --> 02:22:03,760
quite sinister things they were sort of

3683
02:22:06,830 --> 02:22:05,120
small

3684
02:22:09,590 --> 02:22:06,840
you know entities that would live deep

3685
02:22:11,110 --> 02:22:09,600
underground and they would interact with

3686
02:22:12,630 --> 02:22:11,120
people they could be friendly they could

3687
02:22:14,870 --> 02:22:12,640
be malevolent

3688
02:22:16,710 --> 02:22:14,880
they would steal babies and leave what

3689
02:22:20,469 --> 02:22:16,720
was called a changeling like this

3690
02:22:23,270 --> 02:22:20,479
crudely carved model of a baby they

3691
02:22:25,750 --> 02:22:23,280
would seduce men to have sex with them

3692
02:22:28,469 --> 02:22:25,760
because reportedly the fairy population

3693
02:22:30,230 --> 02:22:28,479
was blighted and was dying and needed

3694
02:22:31,510 --> 02:22:30,240
quote new stock

3695
02:22:33,750 --> 02:22:31,520
people would have missing time

3696
02:22:36,870 --> 02:22:33,760
experiences with the fairies so you can

3697
02:22:40,469 --> 02:22:36,880
actually put all of those stories into a

3698
02:22:42,309 --> 02:22:40,479
ufo context and they parallel very very

3699
02:22:45,429 --> 02:22:42,319
closely a lot of today's abduction

3700
02:22:48,389 --> 02:22:45,439
stories so you know one person's

3701
02:22:51,030 --> 02:22:48,399
gray could be another person's fairy or

3702
02:22:53,190 --> 02:22:51,040
goblin you know or sprites and so you

3703
02:22:56,309 --> 02:22:53,200
know to get back to your question some

3704
02:22:58,550 --> 02:22:56,319
of those centuries old stories could be

3705
02:22:59,750 --> 02:22:58,560
their equivalents of the greys you know

3706
02:23:02,630 --> 02:22:59,760
it could have been one and the same

3707
02:23:05,030 --> 02:23:02,640
thing yeah well of course the two

3708
02:23:06,870 --> 02:23:05,040
preeminent books on this subject are

3709
02:23:10,710 --> 02:23:06,880
uh

3710
02:23:12,309 --> 02:23:10,720
evans wentz

3711
02:23:14,790 --> 02:23:12,319
uh which came out i think in the early

3712
02:23:17,349 --> 02:23:14,800
nineteen hundreds and then of course uh

3713
02:23:19,270 --> 02:23:17,359
jacques villa's uh seminal work

3714
02:23:21,270 --> 02:23:19,280
passport to begonia

3715
02:23:23,110 --> 02:23:21,280
so anybody that wants to look at those

3716
02:23:24,950 --> 02:23:23,120
parallels those are two highly

3717
02:23:28,550 --> 02:23:24,960
recommended books

3718
02:23:30,309 --> 02:23:28,560
the most recent evans vents book

3719
02:23:33,110 --> 02:23:30,319
has a very very interesting and

3720
02:23:36,550 --> 02:23:33,120
eye-opening introduction by the one and

3721
02:23:36,560 --> 02:23:38,950
yeah

3722
02:23:43,110 --> 02:23:40,870
so uh how about a couple of other

3723
02:23:47,190 --> 02:23:43,120
questions here that we have

3724
02:23:48,950 --> 02:23:47,200
um here's one from spectre73

3725
02:23:50,710 --> 02:23:48,960
who's been a member of the paracast for

3726
02:23:53,910 --> 02:23:50,720
about a year and a half

3727
02:23:55,190 --> 02:23:53,920
and he's wondering he says a few of us

3728
02:23:57,750 --> 02:23:55,200
paracast

3729
02:23:59,349 --> 02:23:57,760
uk listeners are getting together

3730
02:24:00,630 --> 02:23:59,359
in the new year to start our own

3731
02:24:01,750 --> 02:24:00,640
research

3732
02:24:02,950 --> 02:24:01,760
and

3733
02:24:05,110 --> 02:24:02,960
i think they're they're they're

3734
02:24:06,389 --> 02:24:05,120
interested in haunted sites so i'm even

3735
02:24:07,349 --> 02:24:06,399
going to try to make it over there if

3736
02:24:09,830 --> 02:24:07,359
possible

3737
02:24:12,309 --> 02:24:09,840
but um what what advice would you give

3738
02:24:14,230 --> 02:24:12,319
for getting into field investigation

3739
02:24:16,070 --> 02:24:14,240
it's kind of an open-ended big question

3740
02:24:18,630 --> 02:24:16,080
but uh you know you have any pointers

3741
02:24:21,190 --> 02:24:18,640
any tips

3742
02:24:22,710 --> 02:24:21,200
before we have those tips

3743
02:24:24,710 --> 02:24:22,720
let's do our break and come back with

3744
02:24:26,710 --> 02:24:24,720
our final segment

3745
02:24:28,870 --> 02:24:26,720
with nick redfearn

3746
02:24:39,830 --> 02:24:28,880
with gene steinberg and chris o'brien

3747
02:24:47,429 --> 02:24:43,349
thank you for listening to gcn

3748
02:24:49,750 --> 02:24:47,439
be sure to visit gcnlive.com today

3749
02:24:53,030 --> 02:24:49,760
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3768
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3770
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3772
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3774
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3802
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3810
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3813
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like you're losing control over your

3814
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3815
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[Music]

3848
02:28:59,190 --> 02:28:55,990
this is nuclear physicist lecturer

3849
02:29:00,950 --> 02:28:59,200
stanton friedman you are listening to

3850
02:29:10,389 --> 02:29:00,960
the parrot cast

3851
02:29:15,030 --> 02:29:12,469
okay nick redfearn i know you're

3852
02:29:17,270 --> 02:29:15,040
chomping at the bit to provide an answer

3853
02:29:19,429 --> 02:29:17,280
to the listener question mentioned at

3854
02:29:21,110 --> 02:29:19,439
the end of the last segment

3855
02:29:23,110 --> 02:29:21,120
so go ahead please

3856
02:29:25,270 --> 02:29:23,120
yeah and i think the one thing i would

3857
02:29:27,110 --> 02:29:25,280
say more than anything else is if you're

3858
02:29:29,349 --> 02:29:27,120
going to get into the ufo subject and

3859
02:29:31,510 --> 02:29:29,359
investigate it do field work and things

3860
02:29:34,550 --> 02:29:31,520
like that don't go into it with a

3861
02:29:37,270 --> 02:29:34,560
preconceived conclusion or ideas to what

3862
02:29:39,510 --> 02:29:37,280
you think ufos are where they're from or

3863
02:29:41,750 --> 02:29:39,520
what their agenda is just look at each

3864
02:29:44,550 --> 02:29:41,760
case on its own merits i think some of

3865
02:29:47,030 --> 02:29:44,560
the biggest damage in ufology has been

3866
02:29:50,150 --> 02:29:47,040
done by people who've got preconceived

3867
02:29:52,309 --> 02:29:50,160
beliefs as to what happened in this case

3868
02:29:53,990 --> 02:29:52,319
or where they're where the entities are

3869
02:29:56,630 --> 02:29:54,000
from or whatever

3870
02:29:59,349 --> 02:29:56,640
the ideas and the themes have stuck to

3871
02:30:02,309 --> 02:29:59,359
where they've become perceived as 100

3872
02:30:04,150 --> 02:30:02,319
truth so i think the important thing is

3873
02:30:05,670 --> 02:30:04,160
look at it open-mindedly maybe the

3874
02:30:07,389 --> 02:30:05,680
subject or the phenomenon is

3875
02:30:09,750 --> 02:30:07,399
extraterrestrial maybe it's

3876
02:30:11,510 --> 02:30:09,760
inter-dimensional multi-dimensional

3877
02:30:14,469 --> 02:30:11,520
paranormal

3878
02:30:16,710 --> 02:30:14,479
time travelers who knows but don't get

3879
02:30:18,790 --> 02:30:16,720
caught up in saying it's definitely this

3880
02:30:21,830 --> 02:30:18,800
or that that's what i would avoid on any

3881
02:30:25,190 --> 02:30:21,840
investigation be objective

3882
02:30:28,230 --> 02:30:25,200
yeah and my tip would be always assume a

3883
02:30:30,870 --> 02:30:28,240
mundane explanation until you can prove

3884
02:30:32,950 --> 02:30:30,880
something extraordinary occurred

3885
02:30:34,070 --> 02:30:32,960
assume a mundane explanation and let the

3886
02:30:35,349 --> 02:30:34,080
facts

3887
02:30:37,990 --> 02:30:35,359
and the evidence

3888
02:30:39,910 --> 02:30:38,000
disprove your assumption if you're going

3889
02:30:41,110 --> 02:30:39,920
to assume anything assume that it's

3890
02:30:43,349 --> 02:30:41,120
mundane

3891
02:30:46,070 --> 02:30:43,359
just be grounded as well you know

3892
02:30:47,670 --> 02:30:46,080
and i have 13 rules suggested rules of

3893
02:30:50,389 --> 02:30:47,680
investigation

3894
02:30:51,830 --> 02:30:50,399
that i published in three of my books so

3895
02:30:53,830 --> 02:30:51,840
mysterious valley enter the valley and

3896
02:30:56,150 --> 02:30:53,840
secrets of the mysterious valley has 13

3897
02:30:58,790 --> 02:30:56,160
suggested rules of investigation

3898
02:31:01,190 --> 02:30:58,800
don't ask leading questions

3899
02:31:02,309 --> 02:31:01,200
is a good one appearances can be

3900
02:31:03,590 --> 02:31:02,319
deceiving

3901
02:31:05,510 --> 02:31:03,600
also

3902
02:31:07,030 --> 02:31:05,520
be aware of coincidences in

3903
02:31:09,110 --> 02:31:07,040
synchronicities

3904
02:31:10,870 --> 02:31:09,120
oftentimes those are indications that

3905
02:31:14,309 --> 02:31:10,880
you're on the right track

3906
02:31:16,150 --> 02:31:14,319
don't rely solely on intuition

3907
02:31:17,830 --> 02:31:16,160
intuition can be an invaluable

3908
02:31:19,910 --> 02:31:17,840
investigative tool

3909
02:31:22,150 --> 02:31:19,920
but it is not the end all to be all you

3910
02:31:24,550 --> 02:31:22,160
can't totally

3911
02:31:26,550 --> 02:31:24,560
rely on your intuitive sense

3912
02:31:32,950 --> 02:31:26,560
about a person case

3913
02:31:37,429 --> 02:31:34,790
and learn from nick and uh john

3914
02:31:39,750 --> 02:31:37,439
greenwald how to do foia

3915
02:31:41,270 --> 02:31:39,760
requests because they got it down to the

3916
02:31:42,870 --> 02:31:41,280
science

3917
02:31:45,030 --> 02:31:42,880
i don't do them anymore now i mean the

3918
02:31:47,510 --> 02:31:45,040
ones i've got you know the fbi is always

3919
02:31:50,070 --> 02:31:47,520
posting new ones on their websites they

3920
02:31:52,710 --> 02:31:50,080
just reposted after a few years the

3921
02:31:56,469 --> 02:31:52,720
nikola tesla file which is a good one

3922
02:31:58,389 --> 02:31:56,479
um but i don't do foyer stuff anymore um

3923
02:31:59,830 --> 02:31:58,399
i sort of did what i wanted to do and i

3924
02:32:02,469 --> 02:31:59,840
know a lot of other people are doing it

3925
02:32:05,030 --> 02:32:02,479
so you know i prefer now just to sort of

3926
02:32:07,110 --> 02:32:05,040
focus on you know witness investigations

3927
02:32:07,830 --> 02:32:07,120
that kind of thing or expeditions as

3928
02:32:10,309 --> 02:32:07,840
well

3929
02:32:12,389 --> 02:32:10,319
once they get a request when they

3930
02:32:14,870 --> 02:32:12,399
actually have that information they can

3931
02:32:17,110 --> 02:32:14,880
just post it that's a normal process

3932
02:32:19,750 --> 02:32:17,120
isn't it now well yeah yeah i mean if

3933
02:32:21,990 --> 02:32:19,760
it's an individual post you know request

3934
02:32:24,389 --> 02:32:22,000
something they will mail it to you

3935
02:32:26,469 --> 02:32:24,399
but if they're just going through their

3936
02:32:27,990 --> 02:32:26,479
own files to see what can be released if

3937
02:32:29,910 --> 02:32:28,000
they find stuff that can and they think

3938
02:32:31,990 --> 02:32:29,920
it'll interest people yeah they they'll

3939
02:32:34,230 --> 02:32:32,000
post it to the vault yeah that's the

3940
02:32:36,469 --> 02:32:34,240
name of the fbi's website the vault yeah

3941
02:32:38,630 --> 02:32:36,479
right and also john greenwald's black

3942
02:32:40,389 --> 02:32:38,640
files i think he's got over a million

3943
02:32:42,150 --> 02:32:40,399
pages of documents there

3944
02:32:45,670 --> 02:32:42,160
amongst all the

3945
02:32:48,790 --> 02:32:45,680
foia stuff the foia stuff that you got

3946
02:32:51,190 --> 02:32:48,800
nick anything really surprise you or was

3947
02:32:53,110 --> 02:32:51,200
most of it pretty much expected

3948
02:32:56,230 --> 02:32:53,120
there's one file that kind of surprises

3949
02:32:58,070 --> 02:32:56,240
me that's the fbi's file on you remember

3950
02:33:00,870 --> 02:32:58,080
in 1986 when the space shuttle

3951
02:33:03,429 --> 02:33:00,880
challenger exploded on takeoff

3952
02:33:05,910 --> 02:33:03,439
uh killing all the crew well the fbi

3953
02:33:08,870 --> 02:33:05,920
opened a file on this to see if it could

3954
02:33:10,469 --> 02:33:08,880
have been sabotaged uh because a number

3955
02:33:11,910 --> 02:33:10,479
of people around the country were saying

3956
02:33:12,790 --> 02:33:11,920
that they thought they saw like some

3957
02:33:14,630 --> 02:33:12,800
sort of

3958
02:33:16,550 --> 02:33:14,640
light flash towards the fuel tank you

3959
02:33:18,710 --> 02:33:16,560
know the the idea of like some sort of

3960
02:33:20,790 --> 02:33:18,720
laser guided weapon or something from

3961
02:33:23,030 --> 02:33:20,800
terrorists well that's really weird is

3962
02:33:25,670 --> 02:33:23,040
there's quite a substantial

3963
02:33:27,670 --> 02:33:25,680
section in that file which the fbi took

3964
02:33:30,630 --> 02:33:27,680
very seriously and interviewed the

3965
02:33:33,030 --> 02:33:30,640
source it was a woman who claimed sort

3966
02:33:36,309 --> 02:33:33,040
of contact with higher extraterrestrial

3967
02:33:38,790 --> 02:33:36,319
entities who told her who destroyed the

3968
02:33:40,950 --> 02:33:38,800
shot the shuttle of white was destroyed

3969
02:33:42,870 --> 02:33:40,960
and it runs to like 20 something pages

3970
02:33:45,429 --> 02:33:42,880
and that section of the file runs to

3971
02:33:48,150 --> 02:33:45,439
about 20 pages and some of the files the

3972
02:33:50,790 --> 02:33:48,160
pages in that file are still classify it

3973
02:33:52,469 --> 02:33:50,800
you know so that that's kind of a weird

3974
02:33:54,790 --> 02:33:52,479
little file you know you'd imagine it

3975
02:33:57,030 --> 02:33:54,800
would be just a straightforward

3976
02:33:59,270 --> 02:33:57,040
file on the shuttle explosion and was

3977
02:34:00,630 --> 02:33:59,280
the accident was it terrorist but now

3978
02:34:03,349 --> 02:34:00,640
there's actually a section in there it

3979
02:34:04,230 --> 02:34:03,359
almost sounds like a channeling contact

3980
02:35:05,349 --> 02:34:04,240
t

3981
02:35:07,190 --> 02:35:05,359
ever do a follow-up book and i probably

3982
02:35:10,070 --> 02:35:07,200
won't because there's not enough

3983
02:35:12,309 --> 02:35:10,080
material to justify

3984
02:35:14,630 --> 02:35:12,319
to writing it it would just be filler

3985
02:35:16,950 --> 02:35:14,640
right now you know i mean i'll give you

3986
02:35:18,870 --> 02:35:16,960
an example i've got a few cases in the

3987
02:35:21,830 --> 02:35:18,880
last couple of years where

3988
02:35:24,230 --> 02:35:21,840
military pilots had seen ufos and a

3989
02:35:26,389 --> 02:35:24,240
couple of police officers and two of

3990
02:35:27,830 --> 02:35:26,399
them told me personally how they were

3991
02:35:29,830 --> 02:35:27,840
visited by

3992
02:35:31,990 --> 02:35:29,840
representatives of this particular group

3993
02:35:33,190 --> 02:35:32,000
who asked them all sorts of questions

3994
02:35:35,670 --> 02:35:33,200
about

3995
02:35:37,670 --> 02:35:35,680
what they thought the phenomenon was and

3996
02:35:40,950 --> 02:35:37,680
did it have any sort of occult or even

3997
02:35:43,349 --> 02:35:40,960
demonic overtones to it and and it kind

3998
02:35:44,950 --> 02:35:43,359
of sounded like the sort of people who

3999
02:35:48,389 --> 02:35:44,960
were in the collins elite this was back

4000
02:35:50,230 --> 02:35:48,399
in the 70s though um so there are little

4001
02:35:52,150 --> 02:35:50,240
things like that have surfaced now and

4002
02:35:54,710 --> 02:35:52,160
again but but nothing

4003
02:35:56,230 --> 02:35:54,720
major you know and that's so it's you

4004
02:35:57,510 --> 02:35:56,240
know just one of the unfortunate things

4005
02:35:58,950 --> 02:35:57,520
that sometimes

4006
02:36:00,070 --> 02:35:58,960
you get something that you hit a brick

4007
02:36:01,830 --> 02:36:00,080
wall and

4008
02:36:04,389 --> 02:36:01,840
you know

4009
02:36:05,910 --> 02:36:04,399
doors close or whatever but um i still

4010
02:36:07,830 --> 02:36:05,920
look out for stuff and i still get

4011
02:36:09,990 --> 02:36:07,840
things now and again but as i said it's

4012
02:36:10,870 --> 02:36:10,000
snippets but they are sometimes snippets

4013
02:36:17,990 --> 02:36:10,880
that

4014
02:36:20,550 --> 02:36:18,000
you know went beyond just what i

4015
02:36:22,389 --> 02:36:20,560
included in the books yeah we're just

4016
02:36:25,429 --> 02:36:22,399
about out of time nick what do you have

4017
02:36:26,710 --> 02:36:25,439
on your agenda well actually uh believe

4018
02:36:28,630 --> 02:36:26,720
it or not next year i'll have another

4019
02:36:31,830 --> 02:36:28,640
book out which is like a combination of

4020
02:36:34,469 --> 02:36:31,840
all the latest latest mib and women in

4021
02:36:36,389 --> 02:36:34,479
black cases i've got i've also got an a

4022
02:36:38,710 --> 02:36:36,399
to z book coming out with

4023
02:36:41,510 --> 02:36:38,720
visible ink press next year called

4024
02:36:43,990 --> 02:36:41,520
secret societies it's like uh 200

4025
02:36:46,550 --> 02:36:44,000
entries of secret societies throughout

4026
02:36:47,910 --> 02:36:46,560
the centuries and up to the present day

4027
02:36:50,389 --> 02:36:47,920
if someone wants to get in touch with

4028
02:36:52,070 --> 02:36:50,399
you where can they check out your stuff

4029
02:36:54,309 --> 02:36:52,080
well i have a blog called world of

4030
02:36:55,830 --> 02:36:54,319
whatever if people type in the redfern

4031
02:36:57,830 --> 02:36:55,840
world of whatever they'll find a blog

4032
02:36:58,630 --> 02:36:57,840
and there's a contact page there or they

4033
02:37:02,309 --> 02:36:58,640
can

4034
02:37:04,469 --> 02:37:02,319
reach me at twitter it's redfern ufo or

4035
02:37:07,830 --> 02:37:04,479
facebook people can reach me there too

4036
02:37:09,510 --> 02:37:07,840
and um all the books are on amazon and

4037
02:37:10,230 --> 02:37:09,520
some of them are barnes and noble as

4038
02:37:12,309 --> 02:37:10,240
well

4039
02:37:16,710 --> 02:37:12,319
yes there still is a barnes and noble

4040
02:37:21,670 --> 02:37:19,190
you can find us on twitter just look for

4041
02:37:23,429 --> 02:37:21,680
the powercast on twitter most of our

4042
02:37:26,230 --> 02:37:23,439
activities there very frankly aren't

4043
02:37:28,070 --> 02:37:26,240
sending provocative notes at 3am they're

4044
02:37:30,710 --> 02:37:28,080
putting up announcements about the shows

4045
02:37:33,349 --> 02:37:30,720
and future shows we have a presence on

4046
02:37:36,230 --> 02:37:33,359
facebook which is much the same thing

4047
02:37:38,230 --> 02:37:36,240
two powercast fan clubs

4048
02:37:40,790 --> 02:37:38,240
we also have another radio show in

4049
02:37:42,309 --> 02:37:40,800
addition to the ones on powercast plus i

4050
02:37:43,110 --> 02:37:42,319
do something called the tech night out

4051
02:37:45,830 --> 02:37:43,120
live

4052
02:37:47,270 --> 02:37:45,840
about technology and apple and microsoft

4053
02:37:48,469 --> 02:37:47,280
and all that stuff

4054
02:37:51,270 --> 02:37:48,479
but we

4055
02:37:53,510 --> 02:37:51,280
have that second radio show going on

4056
02:37:56,070 --> 02:37:53,520
called after the power cast for power

4057
02:37:59,030 --> 02:37:56,080
cast listeners only available if you

4058
02:38:01,510 --> 02:37:59,040
subscribe to the power cast plus go to

4059
02:38:05,670 --> 02:38:01,520
plus.thepowercast.com

4060
02:38:08,070 --> 02:38:05,680
p l u s dot the powercast.com

4061
02:38:09,830 --> 02:38:08,080
we offer the after the powercast podcast

4062
02:38:11,030 --> 02:38:09,840
which can be all sorts of things

4063
02:38:14,469 --> 02:38:11,040
interviews

4064
02:38:16,070 --> 02:38:14,479
just us talking you never know we give

4065
02:38:16,870 --> 02:38:16,080
you the commercial free version of this

4066
02:38:19,190 --> 02:38:16,880
show

4067
02:38:22,070 --> 02:38:19,200
we've added videos we've added content

4068
02:38:24,950 --> 02:38:22,080
from paul kimball's other side of truth

4069
02:38:27,510 --> 02:38:24,960
that includes the audio shows some

4070
02:38:29,510 --> 02:38:27,520
videos like i said a vintage video

4071
02:38:31,750 --> 02:38:29,520
of nick redfearn turned up there he

4072
02:38:33,670 --> 02:38:31,760
didn't even know that we found it where

4073
02:38:35,990 --> 02:38:33,680
actually paul found it if you want to

4074
02:38:38,950 --> 02:38:36,000
learn more and the monthly rates start

4075
02:38:44,429 --> 02:38:38,960
just 4.99 for a subscription go to

4076
02:38:49,190 --> 02:38:47,110
plus.theparacast.com nick redfern thanks

4077
02:39:04,469 --> 02:38:49,200
for joining us on the power cast

4078
02:39:10,230 --> 02:39:07,349
the paracast featuring jean steinberg

4079
02:39:13,190 --> 02:39:10,240
and christopher o'brien is a copyrighted

4080
02:39:14,950 --> 02:39:13,200
presentation of making the impossible

4081
02:39:19,110 --> 02:39:14,960
incorporated